Powerfeeding

I think the first thing that needs to be addressed in a thread like this is your definition of power feeding. A lot of people have different ideas of what they would consider power feeding.

Personally, I've always had the understanding that power feeding is forcing the animal to eat more than they should by passing multiple prey items to it one after the other in a chain. That I believe is wrong, and the stress you would cause the snake out weighs any benefits you could gain from doing this.

Some people consider feeding more than once a week power feeding. I don't see this as power feeding. If the snake isn't hungry, it's not going to eat. As long as you're keeping an eye on the snake to make sure it's not becoming obese, there's nothing wrong with this. If it IS becoming obese, you're over feeding the snake, not power feeding it. I believe some snakes are genetically predisposed to eating whatever you put in front of them, so you DO have to know your animals.

I agree that young snakes are genetically disposed to try and grow as quickly as possible, hence eating more or more frequently, etc. However, I think people use this as too much of an excuse. Moderation is the key. Don't offer a hatchling 5 fuzzies just because you know he will take them...he is genetically determined to take them. There is no need for them to grow too fast and risk later health effects in captivity. In the wild, the risk of being prey when they are tiny is higher than the chance that they will get some health issue later in life from growing too fast as a hatchling, for this reason, they eat more/have a higher metabolism w/e. I think it is our responsibility as keepers to act in the best interest of the snakes and hobby, not our own wallets or goals.

As for what is or isnt powerfeeding and how to recognize if you are over/powerfeeding (depending on your definition), is a vicious cycle. Most of the big breeders are the ones that are powerfeeding more regularly, and because they have so many snakes, are unable to have a personal connection with each animal to notice all of the stress indicators or overall well being, like a smaller hobby breeder might have the time and motivation to do. This is just food for though but something I think is crucial none the less.

I had another thought going....but I lost it.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Regarding younger snakes, as Tim said - it's in their best interest to grow as quickly as possible to be less of a prey item to bigger animals. I believe that Tim told me that some CH babies that are imported have been reported to be 2 x the size of their equally aged CB babies, because they ate every single time they came across prey.

The longer I've kept these animals, the more open that I've become to new methods of keeping and raising them based on what makes good common sense to me. When I first started keeping them, all my personal "rules" were very black and white about their care. Now I'm open to more shades of gray and that if the Barkers can keep them one way and be successful, and NERD can keep them a different way, and Brian Sharp yet another, who's to say that one way is better than another?

There are certainly very basic guidelines that we stick to when advising those new to keeping ball pythons, because they are tried and true. But for those with more experience under their belts, think outside the box a little. Just because someone is feeding more than you would, doesn't mean that it's a bad thing. How else do we learn more about them?

Three years ago, NO one would have bred a male under a year old. Now, with people like John Stranahan (jasballs) pushing the envelope you now hear Adam say on Reptile Radio that he's bred younger males, you hear many of the big breeders trying it and seeing no detriment to their male's health, as long as they are in tune with their animal and stress signals.

No one serious about their animals would willingly risk their health. I can't speak to un-ethical people who thought BP's were the next big money maker a few years ago, but most of the members participating here I find to be very thoughtful and put their animal's well-being first, but are also willing to try new things, while still being mindful to how their animals respond.

Just my $.02

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Very well said, and I agree 100%. BTW, sorry Tim. I posted your name incorrectly in an earlier post.

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

You have the wrong idea of what power feeding is, feeding a ball once every three days until it is breeding size can be unhealthy according to how you do it. If the snake becomes 100% fat with no muscle then yes, that would be extream power feeding. But if it keeps a steady weight because it can handle/ gains from it then no it is not what I would can power feeding. Power feeding isnt only feeding alot, people watch the snake eat and then once they start to get to the end they start to shove p/k or f/t in its mouth so it will eat that one as well, and sometimes they do it again after that! Its not about how much the ball will eat, its how many rats they can shove down it befor it pukes it up.

I do not think that any of us has been in this hobby long enough to come to that conclusion. Ball pythons can live to be 50+ years old.

well... we know because the snake that just died at the age of 5 that should be reaching 50. When you cut it open( Have you ever seen the inside of an powerfed snake? Its not pretty... the fat puts alot of stress on its organs) there are just layers of pure fat.

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I agree with you here. Forcing an animal to eat in this manner is wrong. I would never do that to my animals.

i was under the impression that the problem with power feeding was that the snakes muscle mass would outgrow its bone structure leaving a big brittle snake .... to combat that ive hurd breeders would give there BPs calcium suppliments among others to help the snake grow more robust .... ive never tried "power feeding" but my 8 month old female recently came off a feeding strike so im and looks a lil skinny so im gunna try to up her intake ... if she wants to

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Originally Posted by SnM_Man

i was under the impression that the problem with power feeding was that the snakes muscle mass would outgrow its bone structure leaving a big brittle snake .... to combat that ive hurd breeders would give there BPs calcium suppliments among others to help the snake grow more robust .... ive never tried "power feeding" but my 8 month old female recently came off a feeding strike so im and looks a lil skinny so im gunna try to up her intake ... if she wants to

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You should be careful with what you're doing. Don't do things you aren't sure about, if you have questions you should ask them, but you have to be open to the answers in order for them to have any real value.

thats why i put it out there !.... so to clearify is there anytruth to what i mentioned in my perivous post on this thread????

I don't consider it "powerfeeding" to offer more rats to an adult female bp going into breeding season or feeding our hatchlings every 5 days or giving a young male some extra food so he's bulked up a bit going into his breeding rotations. For me that's just feeding to the snake's needs at that moment. Young animals in nature will eat a lot so they do grow fast and avoid being somebody else's dinner meal. Many animals, especially females of the species, will take in larger volumes of food just prior to breeding season so they can compete for mates, be in the best shape possible to survive the rigors of the breeding season and for females, so they can have the reserves to sustain a pregnancy and produce healthy young without destroying their own health in the process.

I would consider it powerfeeding if I'm stuffing so much food into my snake because I want to show off to someone else or haven't a clue what I'm doing in the first place when it comes to calculating how much total volume of prey that snake needs for it's current requirements. If I'm overfeeding just to push a snake unnaturally fast to breeding weight without considering other isses that quality that snake as a healthy breeder, then I would call that a dangerous husbandry practise. Basically it comes down to this for me, when I make decisions for the snakes it should always be in their best interest first. If I'm not experienced enough to make that call, then I need to either act in a conservative manner or seek the advice of a far more experience snakekeeper.

Personally though from what I've seen on this board over the years, there's a lot more issues with underfeeding than powerfeeding.

...Yes or no (other than opinions based on personal preference) i would ask for someone to provide evidence that it shortens their lifespan, or does any harm at all. It is one thing to say "No, its bad" or "Yes, its ok" but its quite another to offer some scientific or experienced based evidence or information on the subject.

I personally stick to a once a week routine feeding schedule, but if I said it was bad to feed them more often I would be basing my opinion on nothing, because I really don't know.

Brandon

1) I often see people posting franticly about their ball python(s) not feeding enough, or at all, at times, which I would surmise is a good indication of them eating when they feel like it; in other words balls can be picky eaters...

2) On the other end of the spectrum is the concept of "power feeding", or feeding them more than once a week, like once every 4 to 5 days, or more...

So which is it?

Do they eat when they want, like balls have demonstrated?

Or, can they be forced/induced into eating in greater intervals just be introducing food into their tubs?

I think they eat when THEY WANT TO, so if you provide them food, even if it’s more than once a week, and they eat it, they naturally wanted it. And if they don't want it (and I think evidence has shown that balls are like cats, in that they do what they want, when they want) then there is no harm in introducing food more often, because if a ball does not want to eat, IT WONT.

Brandon