Does this mean another trip to the vet? (Pics)

We are still all in agreement that he needs a vet, right? He has an appointment on Monday at 3:30, so I can still cancel it if I'm just being silly.

Kat, you think it could be a regurge (which apparently yours do). I would think that would mean a trip to the vet anyway, but the vibe I got from your post was that you didn't think so.

And then Clockwork thinks his infrequent pooping is also normal. I don't; none of my other snakes ever go anywhere near that long without pooping.

But simply setting foot in the vet's office is going to cost me $50, plus whatever tests they decide to run. If there's no reason for me to go, please tell me so I don't waste my money. I'm afraid they'll want to do a fecal float or smear. I've already paid for two of those and should have had a healthy snake. I'm really put off to them now. If I go, and they ask me to do one, should I? Or is there something else I should do?

I'm really worried about the snake, and now I'm really worried that I'm worrying for nothing. Please help me out, here, guys. I need your expertise.

I'll bet he still has tapeworm--the vet diagnosed him with tapeworm, but didn't properly treat him for it! Panacur is great for roundworms, but it's not very effective against tapeworm. Tapeworm's only shed intermittantly, so even with clear fecals, he could easily still have them.

Fenbendazole (panacur) is effective against tapeworm in mammals, but it doesn't do much for reptile tapeworms. That explains why your vet used it, thinking it would work.

The drug of choice for reptile tapeworm is Praziquantel (Droncit). 5-8 mg/kg, injected sub-cut-aneously or intramuscularly, repeat after 2 weeks.<--this info is for your vet, in case he doesn't have it. Doseages of 20 mg/kg are too high and can cause seizures in ball pythons. Make sure that the snake appears strong, as it shouldn't be used in debilitated snakes.

By the way, I HIGHLY recommend to anyone with a collection or reptiles, or who has a reptile that's been diagnosed with parasites, the following book:
"Understanding Reptile Parasites" by Roger J. Klingenberg, DVM

In fact, if you have a regular vet that you think should bone up on all this stuff, give it to them for Christmas. lol It's perfectly understandable for laypersons, but it has all of the technical information, including drug doseages. (It has pictures of the parasite oocysts and eggs and larvae as well). It's great to have on your own shelf, and genuinely useful for a vet.

Tapeworm will keep an animal with a hearty appetite from properly gaining weight. Since he's BEEN diagnosed with it, but has not been treated for it properly, that's just about a sure bet.

(note: sorry for the odd dashes, but for reasons mystifying to me, the censor program put censoring in the middle of 'subcutaneously'. I don't get it, since it's not doing it now.).

Tapeworm ova are incredibly hard to see on a fecal floatation (they just don't float well!) so my clinic will often treat for them to be safe. As far as I know, Fenbendazole (Panacur) doesn't treat tapeworms in reptiles OR small mammals. WingedWolf is right, we would use Droncit.

Most internal parasites shed ova intermittently. In a dog that poops a few times a day, it would be simple to catch eggs in 1 or 2 samples. In a snake that goes so infrequently, you can easily go months without finding anything and still have an infected animal. Preventative deworming even without a positive fecal is highly recommended in an animal with a so-so past like yours. Just MAKE SURE your vet knows what they are doing, and is dosing correctly. Bring a copy of the Exotic Animal Formulary with you if they don't have one!

We carry easy snap tests for giardia, see if your vet has them. Giardia cysts are easy to miss by human eyes under a microscope, but the snap test (from Idexx labs) isn't as easily fooled.

Now as far as the infrequent bowel movements.. are you certain the snake hasn't gained weight? Snakes are masters of turning food into mass with very little waste, it's why they've been around so long. The frequent urates may just be a side effect of the increase in water intake, and you are right to think dehydration in an animal having diarrhea. Some subcutaneous fluids may help. Again - make sure you trust your vet.

Sorry for the novel, hope it helps. :gj:

-Tami*

www.arav.org can help find a vet local to you that is likely to have more reptile experience.

I sincerely hope that a herpetological specialty standard is adopted by the vet association soon--one does not currently exist, and a vet cannot officially be a 'reptile specialist'.

I would take him to the vet. Reptiles can deteriorate very quickly, and what you found in the tub does not look like normal feces. In addition, he has a history of parasite infestation.

I always try to hold off on taking my animals to vets because it's traumatizing, sometimes they charge you for unnecessary tests, etc., and because I was a vet tech for a few years so I can manage on my own with some issues. But I do not know that much about internal snake diseases as of yet, so when mine lost all that weight in a short period of time, I went straight to the vet. I figure it was either time for Flagyl or Panacur, but wasn't going to try it myself.

I hope you boy feels better soon. Keep us posted.

Btw, I think I too will be investing in a microscope pretty soon...& a few good reptile disease books.

It's a little frustrating--I can use a microscope, I know the doseages, but I can't get my hands on fenbendazole or metronidazole in any form not made for horses or dogs.
If you can treat your horse or dog on your own, why can't you treat your snake? :P Those meds have a pretty broad margin of error.

Ok, thanks everyone. A friend and I are going to take him tomorrow so we'll see what happens. He's scheduled to eat tonight, and he's been roaming the tank. Should I go ahead and feed him or hold off?

I would NOT feed him right before a trip to the vet, he might regurge it.

I figured as much. The poor guy has had his feeding schedule interrupted at least twice because of vet visits. This is so frustrating! :mad::( And he's really unhappy being stuck in the little ten gallon. I want to take him out and let him roam a little bit because he's just been pushing his face against the screen, but I don't want to handle him until I know exactly what's wrong with him.

This is so unfair! :rage:


Also, where can I get a copy of the Exotic Animal Formulary on short notice like this? I looked it up and it looks like a big, expensive book that I have to buy. :(