Need to Vent

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Originally Posted by mcavana

just a side question... you say your male is 5 feet long? are you sure it is a male?

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Continuing with this line of questioning. Are you sure it's really 5 feet long?

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Originally Posted by starmom

Hey Rich~

I don't think I've noticed ease in handle-ability per se; most of the snakes are fine with being handled, but.....

What I have observed:
-Snakes in RBI Cages (not talking tanks here) never lay in their own pee and, in fact, will go to the opposite end of the cage!
-Use all of the space in the night time to explore, slither around, lounge and stretch out to their full body length and just sort of hang
-Seem...less...I don't know...defensive about their space?? The vibe is different. They seem comfortable. Does this make sense?
-Boy do they coil and attack their prey with gusto!!! Totally snake-like and totally as I would suspect their instincts would dictate them to do. They have ample space to raise their head and 'neck' upwards to aid in the swallowing process.

Snakes in 32qt tubs:
-Have nowhere to go to get out of their own pee and so just lay in it (I do have hides in all my tubs, but they don't even get on top of the tubs like Derek's snakes do). I do not beleive this to be instinctual behavior but rather inflicted upon them because I have them in tubs.
-Try to cruise at night but there is just no space and so they lay there and periscope to the best of their environmental constraints but never get the exercise that their caged roommates get.
-Have a little less muscle mass (it seems) than their caged counterparts.
-Seem to give a bit more of a defensive vibe when I open the tub. I think this might be because it must be this huge gigantic interruption and fast and total exposure for them.
-When fed, they have very little room to coil their prey and not a lot of room to really raise up and aid their swallowing- though they do attempt but are restricted by the environmental constrictions.

Having had very little sleep last night, I am so hoping that this makes some sense to you ;) I am really thinking that the tub thing is, for the most part but also taking care to not over-generalize, a convenience for the keeper and may or may not be what is best for an individual snake.

Having stated the above, I am now ducking under my desk!!!!! :8:

Take care.

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That's so strange, my snake is almost the exact opposite. I kept her in a 10gal aquarium when I got her, then moved her up to some big ExoTerra thing that seemed like it was too big (constantly trying to escape, etc.). After that I moved her to a tub and she's changed considerably. She no longer tries frantically to escape when I handle her, just flicks her tongue around and kind of explores from my hand, and her feeding response has improved drastically (although I leave the top off to give her ample room to move around when she strikes and strangles).

I find it odd that it'd make that much of a difference - the temp is the same, and the humidity actually goes up a lot at night instead of staying at 55-60% 24/7 like it did in the tub. Maybe it's because the sides of the other tank were exposed or the ceiling was too high or something. She did great in the 10 gallon, then got a little bit too big.

Maybe the difference is between a tank and a reptile cage? I have reptile cages that open in the front and are black sided on all the other sides and the top; made by Reptile Basics ;)

That's what I was thinking.

The 10 gallon aquarium had black craft-board taped to three sides and aluminum foil on top to keep the humidity in.

The Exo-Terra had nothing on two sides and held humidity with an open top. Although a lot of fake foliage made a huge difference between that and an empty tank, it didn't completely make her feel secure I think.

She doesn't however explore at night at all anymore really. Pokes her head about but not that much. Kinda bummed about that!

From what you're saying, I believe it was two main things: the lack of cover on the sides, and too much height from the ExoTerra. You might try a 20 long and see how she reacts to that.

In my experience thus far, BPs hate ExoTerra tanks regardless of the size of the tank, probably because most of them are over 12" tall. Too much height may make them feel like they're out in the 'open' and not in a nice burrow. Just a guess.

I have found, tho, that leaving the sides of any tank uncovered results in stressed behaviors. Display cages are solid material anyway, and so the snake can feel secure in them right off.

Sorry for the rambling... it's late, and I'm on a school sleep schedule again. :)

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Originally Posted by Loft Lizard

I think people do sometimes get on the defense, simply because many of us have been online for a long time answering...

"Why won't my snake eat?!"

"Help, having humidity trouble"

"Help, forgot to close the lid and my snake(s) escaped!"

Little stuff like that... if you have a viv and it works for you. You can keep the snake in it, can maintain proper temps and humidity, and you have an animal that is feeding with consistency then it is all good.

Why a poll though?

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I completely agree with this.

I do know that I tend to get defensive about the caging issue, but it's definitely something that I want to pass on. It was my main fault and my main issue when I got my ball python, and I want to try to help and prevent that from happening to any new ball python owner like it happened to me. :] I don't mean to offend anyone by my straightforwardness but I tend to be very direct when I get my point across. :oops:

The poll is odd.

You still haven't answered the 'are you sure it's male?' question. I haven't heard of males getting that big either.
How did you go about measuring it?

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

You still haven't answered the 'are you sure it's male?' question. I haven't heard of males getting that big either.
How did you go about measuring it?

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Actually, he did answer it and said he doesn't know the sex of the snake, just used a generic "he" when referring to it.

Why is everyone so concerned that he offer up a precise length? Yeah, 5' is kind of long for a BP, but certainly not unheard of...and what difference does it make to any of us if he overestimated or underestimated a bit? :confuzd:

Heat tape or flex watt, Back heat or belly heat, aquarium, plastic tub, plastic display case, or other...

Many arguments, all outcomes are the same with no winner. Breeders and hobbyists have all been finding their own ways for a long time. It seems once people figure out what works for them they stick with it to be safe.

To each their own. For us the plastic tubs and belly heat are what seems to work. Also when one of our girls or guys start to skip every other meal or such we have found moving them down in tub size for a while gets them eating regularly again.

I was just talking about this in another thread. I'm no "expert" but I fully believe that you can make ANY size tank an appropriate home for a BP, though a larger tank may require a bit more attention (temps, humidity)
I dont think a BP would really know the difference between a 30 gallon tank or a 55 gallon tank as long as they're both equally "cluttered"

Maybe, but take care to not overly generalize.

For instance (and as already mentioned) I have two girls who would WITHOUT DOUBT know if they were in anything that was big. They are very... I don't know... but if they are not in a tiny little space they go off feed to the detriment of their health.

It seems to me that these snakes have individual differences that would prove and disprove your statement. It is important to be able to read your snakes and give them what they need to thrive. :)