Market crashers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FloridaKingSnake

I think the vast majority of people that buy BPs are for pets, which means for them its about enjoyment of keeps snakes and the friendships they develop with other likeminded people. The people that are willing thinking of paying crazy prices for some of the morphs are holding on to sinking ship!:tears:

---

I actually think the opposite. Now, I could just be completely wrong, but the market majority to me seems to be breeders selling to breeders... or better yet, those that want to breed soon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I actually think the opposite. Now, I could just be completely wrong, but the market majority to me seems to be breeders selling to breeders... or better yet, those that want to breed soon.

---

It looks like a fairly equally mixed bag to me. Judging by the posts on this site I think that it is tilted slightly in favor of the 1 or 2 snake pet owners that mainly have normals and slightly less than half of the owners having many morphs and a handful of people in between the two. If you frequent the shows you will run into the Morph crowd. But many here have bought their snakes in a pet store and many can afford and enjoy normals but don't have the big bucks for morphs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I actually think the opposite. Now, I could just be completely wrong, but the market majority to me seems to be breeders selling to breeders... or better yet, those that want to breed soon.

---

I think there is a lot of truth in that.(pyramid scheme) I also think there are lots of people who want to keep one as a pet.
As prices fall it will make some morphs more likely to show up as pets.
Recessives and all the really cool double recessive stuff will stay high longer.
Where or when prices stabilize, is anyone's guess. It is interesting to me that prices on certain breeds of dogs for example, have remained fairly stable for many years.
Thats because, that no matter how much we love our snakes, they will never be a mainstream type of pet, like a cat or dog.

I can't help but thinking every time this argument is brought up... were these morphs ever really worth that much money to begin with, or are the prices beginning to reflect a more realistic value?? They're snakes, people. Those that have been in this hobby for a long time have come to expect these bloated prices and have seen big breeders become wealthy by acquiring and becoming one of the first to mass-produce these morphs. Now that the hobby has grown so much, why shouldn't these outrageous prices be dropping as the hobby has grown over the years and so many hobbyists have started breeding in their homes? And sometimes I wonder if some of the complaints aren't coming from people who've just gotten into the hobby and are disappointed that they can't become the next Ralph Davis and oh boy it does really take a long time to grow these snakes up, and wow I had no idea how expensive these things are to feed. Look out there... There's still a huge future in crazy double, triple recessives and I think selective breeding is going to make a huge difference between just ok morphs and ones that pop. Look at KS for five minutes and you can see a pastel that barely looks like a pastel and one that screams yellow. If you have dedication and it really means something in your life, it shouldn't matter. But maybe the people that depend on it for income may not be able to do it for the long haul.

It's been said many times....they are worth what ever someone is willing to pay.
Try to buy a pastel clown or a lavender albino. Or on the other side of the coin, look how cheap you can pick up a pastel.

I just want to sell a few snakes, so I can offset the cost of a hobby that I enjoy very much.
Is that a bad thing?

Keeping reptiles is not a "mainstream hobby". So comparing it to the dog and cat industry is not realistic, there is nearly as broad a market for snakes. I could care less how much a pastel clown or a lavender albino costs. And neither does the average customer in BP market. The only people who do are the ones who think they can reproduce them to make a profit. Yet by the time they raise them up to reproduce the morph is not worth nearly what they paided for them. The BP market reminds me of a game of chess, the people spending all this money on pastel clowns or lavender albinos etc... have already lost the game. By the time they are reproducing these morphs the big breeders are already on to the next thing. Most breeders are playing with pawns will the big breeders are using rooks, knights, and bishops.

Their are a lot of ways of looking at the overall picture. A lot of opinions will exist based on the individuals economic condition. Those people being squeezed currently are making tough decisions and some thought getting into breeding ball pythons would help their current economic condition only to discover they are in over their heads and prices are dropping. These people further react by selling for less causing the further collapse of ball python morph prices. I don't think any market is going to get through the current economy without feeling some negative affects other than liquor, beer, and cigarette markets as these markets have always tended to out perform the markets in the long run during a recession or depression. A lot of smaller breeders that depend on income from breeding to keep breeding are going to need to bail out. Some of the larger breeders are probably going to have to tighten their belts as well. The hobby breeder that has another job that pays well enough as to not feel the economic pinch is in the best position since even if they do not sell any ball pythons nothing is going to change around their house since they already consider the cost of keeping the ball pythons a pet luxury that they would pay anyways.

Bottom line is:
1. Those people looking for a ball python as a pet are in an excellent position this year to get a deal on a morph for a pet.
2. Those people who over extended thinking they could catch up will find financial hard times ahead.
3. Those hobby breeders can sit back and let the market do as it wants while they dink around.

While it is true that snakes are not as main stay pets as dogs or cats, you have to remember that most people who have one snake is more likely to get more than dog and cat owners.

Consider this also, with the exit of alot of mid level breeders - who will be supporting the market? The pet owner will. Someone previously posted that they think that the big breeders are still spending a lot on the new morphs. I disagree, if you know any of the big breeders they usually are trading into the other morphs that they were not previously involved in(Very little cash exchanges hands). I think the falling prices are good for the BP market, It gets rid of the "fair weather" breeders and provides a much more stable base for the market :DThe Pet Ower:D

Supply and demand folks.
And spiders are not expensive at all!
If you have been watching the markets for the last 4-5 years prices drop as availibility increases. This is why co-doms go down much faster than recessives. It is what it is.

A little late in this thread, but "supply and demand" is only the big picture here. The "pet market" for morphs is very VERY small. The more rare the morph, the greater the odds potential buyers intend on breeding it and selling the offspring. While pet owners make up a large portion of the ball python market as a whole, the overwhelming majority are owners of relatively affordable snakes (normals, and to a lesser degree, pastels, spiders etc). The average guy or gal isn't going to spend $2000 on a pet snake.

As someone mentioned above... it's a bit of a pyramid right now. The big breeder sells his morph for $10,000 to the medium breeder. The medium breeder sells his morph for $5000 to the small breeder. It goes on and on and on, until morph prices finally drop to the point that Joe Schmo who has no interest in breeding is willing to pay the price.

So if you are just getting into the breeding market, keep your expectations low. Look at the prices corns go for to get an idea where the market may eventually head.