Pinstripe question

Ok Im no genetics expert in any way. From what I was seeing if two pins were bred together. Out of 4 eggs you should get 2 pins 1 Homozygous and 1 normal. Right? There is no super form that we know of right? Then the Homozygous must look just like the normal pin. So that should mean two pins from that clutch ( out of 4 eggs), when bred to a normal should be 50/50 pin/normal hatchlings( 4 eggs 2 pins 2 normals). Right? The 1 homozygous pin that I take it must look like a normal pin. When bred to a normal should produce all pins. Right? Then the normal X normal = normals.

So the only way to find out what pins are hets and what ones are Homozygous. The easiest way would be to keep them all breed them all to normals. 2 of those pins should produce 50% pins and 50% normals. Then the one if its Homozygous should produce all pins. Right? But I could breed a pin X pin and get all normals too. If my luck sucked that year or whatever. So there is a good chance there is a super pin yes/no? But it might not look any different than a normal pin. Any thoughts on this

I think this is a good explanation concerning pins and spiders..
Explanation of spider morph

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Originally Posted by Gib

didnt use kind of punnet square....just some good old fashioned common sense...

Breed a visual animal to a visual animal and there is no way you can get a nonvisual offspring...simply for the fact that both every offspring will get atleast one copy of said genes

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I apologize for questioning your expertise. I shall now go crawl back under my rock and do some more studying. Apperently, I am a fool, and need to learn more. Thanks for clarifying those genetics for me.

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Originally Posted by Gib

didnt use kind of punnet square....just some good old fashioned common sense...

Breed a visual animal to a visual animal and there is no way you can get a nonvisual offspring...simply for the fact that both every offspring will get atleast one copy of said genes

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Only sorta right... the idea that this gene is not completely dominant (co-dominant), you still have a 25% chance of getting a normal out of a pin to a pin, because they both could be only heterozygous for the trait.

The only way to find out if you have a homozygous pin (or loosly, 'super') you would need to breed it to a normal animal, and get 100% pinstripes.

If you breed a homozygous pin to a het pin, another homozygous pin, or a normal, you should get all pins in every litter, over and over and over.

If you don't then it's not homozygous.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...e-spider-1.jpg

wow alot of experts crawling out of the wood for this one..

well if as everyone is saying...you will can get normals from a pin to pin breeding..then why no true dominant form???No Super Spiders either...but you still get all spiders if you breed 2 of em them together..was done for quite a few years by a good number of folks and it never panned out..there are no super spiders as well as no super pin which has been tried many many times ...that means spider is a dominant gene as everyone is using in the punnet square(as is there is no "super")....and alas there will be normals in a spider to normal breeding.....and the pinstripe gene works exactly the same way and if you dont believe it or understand why....then breed a pair together and let me know what you end up with...

Gib - Your wrong...Pin and Spider genes work the same way - Use the square...There are no Homo forms of either - Right? So that would make them visual Hets - Right? Use the square - Your theoretically going to get 25% normals...Sure you might luck up and have "good odds" from clutch to clutch but you will produce normals...Theory is just that - Theory...I bred a Pastel x Spider - Do the math - How many Bees / Spiders / Pastels / Normals should I have gotten? I got lucky and hit 3 Bees / 1 Spider / 2 Normals...Mojo to a normal - 9 eggs...In theory I should have gotten 4.5 Mojos - I got 6...Albino to a Het - 4 eggs - 3 Binos...I could go on and on but I won't - It's called luck...No need to get defensive man but you are wrong...
BT

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Originally Posted by Gib

wow alot of experts crawling out of the wood for this one..

well if as everyone is saying...you will can get normals from a pin to pin breeding..then why no true dominant form???No Super Spiders either...but you still get all spiders if you breed 2 of em them together..was done for quite a few years by a good number of folks and it never panned out..there are no super spiders as well as no super pin which has been tried many many times ...that means spider is a dominant gene as everyone is using in the punnet square(as is there is no "super")....and alas there will be normals in a spider to normal breeding.....and the pinstripe gene works exactly the same way and if you dont believe it or understand why....then breed a pair together and let me know what you end up with...

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Did you look at the Markus Jayne link of what you'd get from a spider to spider pairing? In a four egg clutch, statistically three spiders and one normal. Are all these people wrong? :confuzd:

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Originally Posted by Gib

wow alot of experts crawling out of the wood for this one..

well if as everyone is saying...you will can get normals from a pin to pin breeding..then why no true dominant form???No Super Spiders either...but you still get all spiders if you breed 2 of em them together..was done for quite a few years by a good number of folks and it never panned out..there are no super spiders as well as no super pin which has been tried many many times ...that means spider is a dominant gene as everyone is using in the punnet square(as is there is no "super")....and alas there will be normals in a spider to normal breeding.....and the pinstripe gene works exactly the same way and if you dont believe it or understand why....then breed a pair together and let me know what you end up with...

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Remeber alot of these experts have been breeding these same pin's and spider's for a long time.:gj:

Gib is correct when he says there is no Super form of spider or pinstripes, but being homozygous for any trait does not mean it is a "super" form. There very well could be homozygous pinstripes out there, they will not look any different from a heterozygous pinstripe.

Homozygous simply means that it carries identical alleles for a single trait.
In this case, a homozygous pin could be written as "Pn/Pn" and the heterozygous form will be written as "Pn/N" ('N' is normal). The expression of both of these combinations looks the same.

If there is a homozygous form of spider or pin, then every time you breed it to a normal, you should get 100% spiders or pins.

As far as I know, no one has proved that. The homozygous form of each may also be in theory homozygous lethal. In rats, the homozygous form of certain genes will be absorb back into the female's body. You will never see it.

BT LOL not defensive at all and your right the pin and spider gene work exactly the same way...So theoretically you should get a normal ...because it is accepted to be a codom or a dominant trait..of which it is neither...and there are no "supers" and no "hets" because they already homozygous for that trait...and when you breed 2 homozygous animals you will get all homozygous animals.

and im really not tryin to argue with anyone...im just saying there are ALOT of things we dont understand with genetics and alot of things that a simple punnet square doesnt cover simply becuase somethings arent as simple as a codom or recessive trait( just look at all the brown morph genetics)

And Emilio...I can put me into that list thats been breeding them as well for quite a few years

all Im saying is try it out...see what ya produce...or..ask some of the guys that tried to hit the super spider or the super pin for quite a few years