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  • 11-08-2007, 04:51 PM
    littleindiangirl
    Re: Will They Miss Their Space?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoshJP7 View Post
    Each of my snakes gets free roam time twice a week for about an hour(in the summer its longer but my rooms kinda cold in the winter)... Its not uncommon at all where I let them loose and then find them climbing on dressers... bedposts... theyve even been known to climb above my windows and on the curtain rod...

    You stated you let them roam wherever they wanted and later find them in strange places, and that is reckless.
    Above the window? Again, windows are pretty high up for a BP to be. Sounds reckless to me. :rolleyes:
  • 11-08-2007, 04:58 PM
    JoshJP7
    Re: Will They Miss Their Space?
    Honestly I could care less if you think its reckless... My snakes are prolly some of the happiest tamest snakes around... everynight ALL of them are at their doors WAITING to come out... and when I put them back in.. they do everything they can to get back OUT bc they ENJOY the freedom they have... You can keep your snakes in a bubble and make sure nothing ever happens to em but dont call me a "reckless owner" bc I allow them more freedom.
  • 11-08-2007, 05:09 PM
    elevatethis
    Re: Will They Miss Their Space?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoshJP7 View Post
    Honestly I could care less if you think its reckless... My snakes are prolly some of the happiest tamest snakes around... everynight ALL of them are at their doors WAITING to come out... and when I put them back in.. they do everything they can to get back OUT bc they ENJOY the freedom they have... You can keep your snakes in a bubble and make sure nothing ever happens to em but dont call me a "reckless owner" bc I allow them more freedom.

    I don't think what you are doing is reckless - you seem like a concerned keeper just like the rest of us, but does things in a slightly different way than others.

    What I took exception to is when you said that you justified taking risks based on flawed reasoning.

    By what standard are you concluding that your snakes 'enjoy' climbing or being out of their cage to explore? Have you considered that possibility that they may not actually enjoy it, and that exploratory behavior is the result of the stress of being removed from their enclosure and freeroaming in new surroundings? Basically, trying to 'get settled' and find a new, safe place to hide - be it on a bedpost or on top of a window treatment? Have you considered the possibility that your snakes' willingness to escape could be a symptom that they aren't comfortable with their existing enclosures? Support your argument for this type of treatment being worth the risks associated with it.
  • 11-08-2007, 05:19 PM
    JoshJP7
    Re: Will They Miss Their Space?
    My supports is that if theyre trying to find a comphy dark warm place to chill... How come they never stop? Theyre ALWAYS moving.... If i cant find em... give it 5-10 mins and theyre out in the open again... More justification... Why would all them be at their cage doors waiting to be taken out? Theyve come out so many times now its just expected... How do i know they enjoy climbing? well i put them on the floor and find them on the bed... i know they didnt jump up there... If they didnt enjoy climbing why would they be all over the plastic tree thingys i provide them with? Its all reading the snakes body language... If you want to take a trip up to syr, NY id be more than glad to show you what I mean... Ill take some pics tonight when theyre awake... I guess theres no other justification I can give you online... You just need to experience it...

    If they were insecure about their current living situation wouldnt they show signs of stress? Not eating? ... all of my snakes sleep all day just like everyone elses theres nothing abnormal about the way they act... like i said... if they were unhappy wouldnt they be unfriendly not overly friendly?
  • 11-08-2007, 05:27 PM
    elevatethis
    Re: Will They Miss Their Space?
    Hey, if you feel like they like it and they're thriving, that's totally cool. I just can't advocate giving that kind of advice out to a new keeper (the majority of those reading this site) who hasn't had experience with snakes long enough to develop an eye for when things are good or bad with them.
  • 11-08-2007, 05:39 PM
    MikeC1212
    Re: Will They Miss Their Space?
    This is amazing. I had my new girl fall twice.. about a foot because she hangs out on the little handle part of the tub. She won't be able to fit there much longer though. She's still alive!

    Like Josh said, nobody is dangling the snakes off the top of a building before letting them so they can determine if concrete is a forgiving surface. That's how you're all acting.

    About the original post, missing their space, everyone just says: "They'll feel secure." I agree. But mostly you'll feel better about cramming a ton of snakes into a room of your house by putting them in 12qt tubs. I THINK that should only be temporary for hatchlings awaiting a new home.

    How about balls in the wild? All they have is ..whatever they squeeze into in order to feel safe. That's why they're given hides.

    I'm going to go out and say this, no one will be able to tell me different because I'm sure none of you have tried it, I bet a ball python could live in my house and roam all over IF it had sufficent conditions: hides, humdity, temps, etc.
    A lot of people act like these snakes will perish if they're not kept in a tiny enclosure.

    You could lock me in a warm closet and give me food, I'll trust that no one will sneak up on me and kill me, but i'm still not going to like it.
  • 11-08-2007, 06:20 PM
    Stetle49
    Re: Will They Miss Their Space?
    I don't think anyone is saying that anyone drops their snakes out of a 2nd floor window. But at the same time I agree that when given the option balls will choose to explore their surroundings and yes that includes climbing. I have 7 ball pythons and all of them when given the option choose to climb and explore.


    Perfect example, as I am sitting here and typing this response I have an 07 baby on my lap and she keeps trying to get off the couch and go exploring. Twice in the last hour she has succeeded and has "fallen" off the couch. She did not get hurt, she was no stressed, when i picked her back up and put her on the couch it was more like "ah man I didnt get away again" She continues to climb around on the couch, going into the cushions, on my, climbing up and down my legs ( she has found a better way to get to the floor).


    In a few hours when it is feeding time I will go into the snake room and find all 7 of my balls exploring their tubs, both the climbing structures that I placed in them along with going up the walls, the hides and the water dishes. It is an awesome experience have the ability to watch my snakes explore their tubs and move around in them. If you have not had that experience I highly recommend you try it soon!!


    Don't bash it until you try it!!
  • 11-09-2007, 12:06 PM
    littleindiangirl
    Re: Will They Miss Their Space?
    Quote:

    OK but if they want to climb theyll climb right?To say a snake isnt "built" for climbing is kinda silly... Again i offer them the opportunity to climb... I do not make them...
    Again, provide what evidence you have that ball pythons are excellent climbers, and perhaps we can drive to add ball pythons to an arboreal catagory.

    To say that "it's silly" that ball pythons aren't built for climbing is wrong. Ball pythons CAN climb, it does not mean they are exceptional climbers, or "built" for climbing.

    I think I stated the different shapes of snakes, (please correct me if i'm wrong) and ball pythons are "terrestrial". Are you arguing that they aren't? I'm not saying they should never have a chance to climb, or that it's bad to offer a small tree in a short tub, but if I were to put a ball python in an arboreal cage with a fake tree, I will eventually end up with an injured or dead ball python. Because they are not good climbers.

    They may climb around that fake tree all night in an an enclosure like that, but I would honestly never risk that because of the idea they enjoy it. They are most likely trying to find food, or escape.
  • 11-09-2007, 12:36 PM
    littleindiangirl
    Re: Will They Miss Their Space?
    Well I don't know what you want me to say. There are two very different schools of thought behind these posts.

    One is that snakes don't feel emotions. They survive on instinct, and can't feel happy or sad about their enclosure, handler or food. I believe they can feel either stressed and fearful, or secure and content. Whether it's towards their enviroment or keeper. They strive to find a secure setting, and strive to find food because they are basing their actions on their instincts.

    Then the other idea is, snakes judge their surroundings and find them either pleasing or constrictive by reasoning. They feel a whole range of emotions like anger, love, affection, disgust. They can identify those people they care for, and strive to be with them or please them. Or they strive to please themselves with activites and actions based on them reasoning.

    I don't believe the second one. I don't think snakes can feel emotions the same way mammals and higher animals do. I would never agree with your statements that your snakes are trying to visit with you and want to roam for fun.

    I am of the mind they want to secure their settings by first confirming there are no immediate threats, then they will find a small secure place to hide until it is time to feed or breed.
  • 11-09-2007, 01:28 PM
    darkangel
    Re: Will They Miss Their Space?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by littleindiangirl View Post
    Well I don't know what you want me to say. There are two very different schools of thought behind these posts.

    One is that snakes don't feel emotions. They survive on instinct, and can't feel happy or sad about their enclosure, handler or food. I believe they can feel either stressed and fearful, or secure and content. Whether it's towards their enviroment or keeper. They strive to find a secure setting, and strive to find food because they are basing their actions on their instincts.

    Then the other idea is, snakes judge their surroundings and find them either pleasing or constrictive by reasoning. They feel a whole range of emotions like anger, love, affection, disgust. They can identify those people they care for, and strive to be with them or please them. Or they strive to please themselves with activites and actions based on them reasoning.

    I don't believe the second one. I don't think snakes can feel emotions the same way mammals and higher animals do. I would never agree with your statements that your snakes are trying to visit with you and want to roam for fun.

    I am of the mind they want to secure their settings by first confirming there are no immediate threats, then they will find a small secure place to hide until it is time to feed or breed.

    I agree 100%. I think some people are posting based on the assumption that their snakes have feelings for them, do something for "fun", or are going to get depressed.

    I think not.
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