live or frozen mice?

Well I feed all of mine live mice every 6 days.. (breeding rats now) Two mice each three for my big girl and a small mice for my new baby(Once again thanks to Jamie!!!) When i feed i get out some feeding tubs put one snake one mouse and repete till done..: :P I use it as a learning time for my kids and my friends.. I usually have 6 or 7 people standing in the half dark room watching and awwwwing.. It does not bother my snakes in the bit.. Circle of life and foodchain lessons in one.. :D

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Don't make me break out the pictures of snakes that have been injured or killed by rodents.

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Most of us have seen them and it is important to understand the history behind those pics as Robin mentioned it.

Those pics are mainly used by people who opposed live feeding.

To me there is no live Vs F/T debate people must be informed and knowledgeable (they are risk feeding F/T also ;) ).

People should feed what works and what is convenient for them.

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I have nothing against feeding live rodents when a snake will not accept anything else.

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Also equal as I am against live feeding unless you don't have a choice :rolleyes:

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I could feed them tiny rat pups all the time, but I don't think that's an ideal food item for a large snake.

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One of the problem is that many of the people who complain that feeding live is dangerous are also the one feeding large preys even though a BP does not need one.


A large adult does not need anything larger than a small rat 45/65 grams, this allow your BP to feed with consistency and also reduces the risks of severe injury.

Small adult rats (as opposed to pups) can also bite very hard. I am curious to know what the risks of feeding f/t are. I am not actually aware of any.
I don't personally have the rodent colony for feeding several adult ball pythons nothing but mice. Seems like that would take a lot of space, and a lot of mice.
When the option of f/t rats is available, why bother feeding a dozen live mice instead?
I could understand if it were more convenient, and had some benefit to it...but I'm not really seeing either.

I guess after feeding my 5 kids a cup of food for dozen mice don't seem like much... I feel for myself that the most natural order of things is the best.. If i didn't keep my snakes in a cage they would be out hunting live prey in the wild.. O btw also feed my toad live bugs.. ;) But i do prekill and cook my kids meat..

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I am curious to know what the risks of feeding f/t are.

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Some people have fed prey that were not thawed all the way which lead to the death of their animal (Rare but it can happen)

Some BP have also sustained internal injuries (scratches) from nails and/or teeth (Rare but it can happen also)

Just to show that F/T is not 100% safe either like you tend to believe ;) .

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When the option of f/t rats is available, why bother feeding a dozen live mice instead?
I could understand if it were more convenient, and had some benefit to it...but I'm not really seeing either.

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Because it is not convenient for YOU does not mean it is not for other people.

Also while F/T is convinient for YOU it is not for some, (it use to be for me but now with 22 snakes it is a hassle)

Someone feeding partially frozen prey item doesn't indicate a problem with f/t,....the 't' is rather important there. That's owner error, not a problem with the food item.

As for internal scratches, do you have any documentation of this occurring more often with f/t than with live prey? I have personally never heard of this happening at all, except in force-feeding situations (which are entirely different). I am always learning all I can about these animals and their husbandry, so I would like to read up on this further.

So far, I'm still seeing the safety on the side of f/t.

Live: When done properly, possibility of bites, increased risk of parasite transmission.
Pre-Killed: When done properly, Increased risk of parasite transmission.
F/T: When done properly...?

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

You're welcome to advocate that, but I'll continue to disagree that feeding live is safe. My big female was just bitten by a rat, to prove it's not.

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What size rat did you offer her? Small rats' teeth are generally too soft to inflict a wound, and a small is really the largest even adult need. I know Adam feeds this girl a 40-50 gram rat once a month. http://www.8ballpythons.com/lesser.htm

She's the second one from the left in the top row.

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but I AM going to explain why I believe what I do about the issue, and let them make up their own mind.

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As will I. :)

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

That's owner error, not a problem with the food item.

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Same thing with those pictures of chewed up snakes ... it's an owner error, not a problem with the food item. Live feeding can be done safely, I do it every week for a very large colony of ball pythons.

There is nothing inherently wrong with feeding live prey. Same as there is nothing wrong with feeding frozen thawed. Each keeper should choose a method of feeding that their snake will thrive on and works well for them. My choice is live ... it's served me and my animals well for over a decade now.

-adam

Small rats' teeth are too soft to inflict a wound...clearly you have never been bitten by one. I have, and it inflicted a very nice wound. lol
Now, rat pups can't bite, but once they reach adulthood, their jaw pressure is up to inflicting a nasty bite, even if they're small.
The size of the prey item people choose to offer is another one of those things that has multiple answers. I prefer to go with medium rats for the large snakes, because they have fully developed skeletons, and it's more economical to feed one medium rat rather than 2 small ones. Plus, if they are frozen, they can't bite. Feeding 2 small live rats just means 2 chances for the snake to receive a bite, instead of one. Baby mice and rats are lower in calcium. (This concerns me enough that I actually dip young rodents in a bit of calcium supplement after I get my snakes eating them regularly).

I'm still not seeing the ADVANTAGE to feeding live--for the snake. The disadvantages still stand. No matter how you want to argue for using smaller rodents with a weaker bite, bites are still possible, and that doesn't address the parasite risk issue.

I'm still not seeing any disadvantages in f/t--for the snake.