For those who feed outside of there BP's cage/tank?

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Originally Posted by bearhart

Let me tell you now that anybody who tries to act like it does not have an effect on a snake's behavior is either fibbing, inexperienced, or not "in-tune" with their snake.

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So, are you saying that some of the top ball python breeders in the U.S. (RDR, NERD, VPI, etc) are either inexperienced, liars, or aren't in tune with their snakes? You wonder why people jump on you here - it's rediculous statements like that which cause you to catch flak.

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Originally Posted by bearhart

2) Feeding in-cage (live at least) leaves alot of residual scents in the cage which tend to keep your snake primed for feeding much longer after the initial feed.

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There are members on here that breed or keep rats in the same room as their ball pythons (talk about a residual scent!) and have ZERO issues with aggression from their ball pythons.

I'm glad that you gave the in-cage feeding a chance. Your "findings" are from ONE ball python and while I think it's irresponsible to offer definitive advice based on that small of a sample size, what it does prove is that there is absolutely more than one way to successfully keep ball pythons and each owner should decide for themselves what works best for them and their snake.

I just wanted to respond to Bearhart about his post. I think that people should find what works for them and their snake as far as feeding goes. If how you originally fed him was working and your snake was doing well with it, I don't think that you should have changed it. I feed my BP in her enclosure, but I don't get the same results that you got, and as I wouldn't try to change what works for you as far as feeding, I wouldn't go so far as to say that people would be lying or not in tune with thear snake or inexperienced.

I had found that my snake won't eat outside of her enclosure and won't eat f/t. So I feed live and in her enclosure. My Bp has never tried to strike me when I go into her cage, even when I lift her hide where she might be sleeping or whatever and disturb her. My Bp does not seem to have a prolonged feeding response after the initial feed due to anything residual left after feeding live, she eats and then takes a drink and then is off to one of her hides, but then again I don't go into her cage for the 48 hour period after her feed (unless there is a need for a quick spot clean) so I am not 100% sure about this during those 2 days. But like I said she has never tried to strike at me the rest of the time when I go into her cage. Also, I have a tank where I keep extra feeder mice in, which is in the same room pretty close to her cage but where she can't see it, and this has not affected her and caused her to be aggressive. And her cage is a little busy, since it is in the living room and I have tried to make it look pretty with branches and fake plants. But she has never had a bad strike, except for when she is in shed but I doubt that it is due to the cage "clutter" as opposed to it being from shed. Other than that, she tracks the mouse, strikes and the rest is history.

I think that some things work differently for different snakes and for different owners. Things like husbandry should be stuck to 100% but as far as feeding and other experiences, it is different for everybody. But that is just my :2cent: .

OOPS...... Brad said alot of what I said, he just responded quicker :) ......sorry.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

So, are you saying that some of the top ball python breeders in the U.S. (RDR, NERD, VPI, etc) are either inexperienced, liars, or aren't in tune with their snakes? You wonder why people jump on you here - it's rediculous statements like that which cause you to catch flak.



There are members on here that breed or keep rats in the same room as their ball pythons (talk about a residual scent!) and have ZERO issues with aggression from their ball pythons.

I'm glad that you gave the in-cage feeding a chance. Your "findings" are from ONE ball python and while I think it's irresponsible to offer definitive advice based on that small of a sample size, what it does prove is that there is absolutely more than one way to successfully keep ball pythons and each owner should decide for themselves what works best for them and their snake.

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You should read my post because I never gave any advice - I didn't even say that I was going to start feeding out of cage again. What I said was that I think that alot of people cross the line in their zeal to convince others to feed in-cage. So far I have no evidence to suggest that I couldn't continue to feed in-cage and avoid the problems. But - what I don't like is that people act like there are not ramifications to the choice. I don't believe that at all. Everything you do in how you care for your snake affects its behavior - including whether or not you feed in-cage.

I noticed very definate behavior changes in mine when I started to feed in-cage. I don't care if somebody has 500,000 bp's. My one case is perfectly valid and I have every right to tell people about it.

and no I'm not calling top breeders liars. But that doesn't mean they know everything about the snakes. I could easily start doing things one way and be successful at it and build a big breeding business. That doesn't necessarily mean I've done all sorts of controlled experiments or tried things every different which way. That could simply mean I've found a good way and have been very industrious at applying it.

Just like Adam told me that he's fed live with no issues a bajillion times. But, he also won't say that there is zero risk to live feeding. That's the prudent thing for him to do. he's giving out information but he's not out to trying to persuade people.

Also, breeding and keeping a pet are two different things. I think breeders can offer all sorts of valuable advice about husbandry and such. But, I don't think their advice always maps well to a pet owner. Breeders are focused on different things than pet owners. What's a breeder's concern if their snakes are all wound in their tubs when it comes feeding time? That's a good thing for them. To a pet owner that might not be so hot.

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Originally Posted by bearhart

I noticed very definate behavior changes in mine when I started to feed in-cage. I don't care if somebody has 500,000 bp's. My one case is perfectly valid and I have every right to tell people about it.

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Yes....your case is perfectly valid and you have every right to relate your observations and experiences with your snake.

HOWever...what you are also doing here is DISMISSING everyone else's experiences and observations as meaningless, simply because your singular experience has been different.

You can't say everyone else is WRONG in their observations that feeding in the snake's enclosure has caused no aggressive tendencies.....just like I can't come along and say YOU are wrong in saying it seems to have made a difference in YOUR snake's behavior.

So, if you catch flak for this....it's not for your personal observations or experiences.....it's how you use them to dismiss everyone else's as invalid, exaggerated, or wrong.

and I apologize for generalizing alot. I'll be honest: I'm a bit angry that my BP that never exhibited any aggressive behavior towards me has started tracking me and getting ready to strike when I put my hand in his cage.

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Originally Posted by JLC

Yes....your case is perfectly valid and you have every right to relate your observations and experiences with your snake.

HOWever...what you are also doing here is DISMISSING everyone else's experiences and observations as meaningless, simply because your singular experience has been different.

You can't say everyone else is WRONG in their observations that feeding in the snake's enclosure has caused no aggressive tendencies.....just like I can't come along and say YOU are wrong in saying it seems to have made a difference in YOUR snake's behavior.

So, if you catch flak for this....it's not for your personal observations or experiences.....it's how you use them to dismiss everyone else's as invalid, exaggerated, or wrong.

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Well sorry I'm just angry. I feel like I was mislead (and even ridiculed) by some people who were more interested in "do it like I do" than really being up front with what they knew and didn't know.

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Originally Posted by bearhart

and I apologize for generalizing alot. I'll be honest: I'm a bit angry that my BP that never exhibited any aggressive behavior towards me has started tracking me and getting ready to strike when I put my hand in his cage.

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Maybe you're not feeding enough? It's highly likely that a young, growing BP is just looking for food all the time and he would be tracking your hands now, whether he was fed inside the enclosure or out of it.

Quite honestly, I don't care one whit whether someone wants to feed inside or outside their enclosure. Just like I don't care whether someone chooses to feed live or f/t. I just like to make sure that someone new to "the game" is aware of the pros and cons and misconceptions of each method.

I too have a baby BP, and I feed him out of the enclosure. He is less than a year old and I am feeding him F/T mice for now, and have had no problems. I feed him in a seperate plastic container, and use the long feeder tongs. I sit with him until he he finishes eating and settles down. I pick him up gently and cup him in my hands, then take him to his tank IMMEDIATELY. He usually goes to his hide and I don't get to see him for a couple of days.