the snake/human relationship

Here are my thoughts on this. :) Anyone who thinks "oh, my snake loves me and is attached to only me" is just flattering themselves. It is not like a horse or a dog, which can form complex and subtle bonds with humans based on learned behavior of a mind that fully responds to rewards and punishments. Snakes can't be taught to use their master's confidence in them to jump a rail or run an agility course like my examples, horses or dogs, can. They are in a completely different class of animal; one that reacts to stimuli based on instinct; thinking of you as either a meal, a part of the landscape, or a threat.
So in closing, to me, I highly doubt that a snake can form a friendly bond with a human.

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Originally Posted by mricyfire

I personally believe that snakes can tell their owner...CH of course...wild maybe not so much, but most pet snakes have been with their owner since they were little. But like many of you say snakes can't because that is what science says...but I think this goes much farther then science...because they dont know everything...

Most of us have a connection to the snake and maybe the snake feels the same connection (just like the thread starter stated my snake always comes back to me...regardless even if he is put on the floor by a friend...always makes it to wrap around my feet from the other side of the room for safety and then ventures off...or when in a friends hand...just crawls off him and back to me)...might be hard to prove...but it is in the same boat as believing if their is a god...or if we are alone in the universe...

I personally have grown to disbelieve parts of science..because scientist are human too...and are not perfect.

That is my two cents...but I believe that snakes can differentiate and if they "can't" then my snake sure is one hell of an exception.

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Equating the argument concerning whether or not a snake recognizes its owner with the argument concerning whether or not there is a god or we are alone in the universe is absolutely rediculous. The only similar "boat" that these two things have is that one side of the argument is trying to prove something for which they have zero empiricle evidence for.

In any event, based on my experience with keeping snakes, I do believe that snakes can become accustomed to human interaction. However, based on a lot of the posts I've seen recently, there a lot of keepers on here that seem to connect to their snakes on a deeper level than others - I believe that deep connection that humans experience tend to make those keepers read too deeply into certain behaviors and come to conclusions about these behaviors that aren't necessarily true.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Equating the argument concerning whether or not a snake recognizes its owner with the argument concerning whether or not there is a god or we are alone in the universe is absolutely rediculous. The only similar "boat" that these two things have is that one side of the argument is trying to prove something for which they have zero empiricle evidence for.

In any event, based on my experience with keeping snakes, I do believe that snakes can become accustomed to human interaction. However, based on a lot of the posts I've seen recently, there a lot of keepers on here that seem to connect to their snakes on a deeper level than others - I believe that deep connection that humans experience tend to make those keepers read too deeply into certain behaviors and come to conclusions about these behaviors that aren't necessarily true.

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Couldn't agree more!

I do like the "heat signature" idea though, in regards to snakes differentiating people.. it is the most scientific explanation I have seen thus far. Not like "Oh, Fluffy lubs me and hates Joe!"

I feel that in order to have a bond exist for both parties there needs to be some form of recognition/rationalization capabilities for both parties involved. I just don't feel snakes have this ability, if I was going to argue this point I would bring to light the fact that snakes are imprint feeders; so some sort of memory is present. They recognize the scent of a rat over a mouse(vice versa) and this triggers a feeding response which is instinctual. I apply this same logic when it comes to snakes showing "preference" for one person over the other. While there is no doubt in my mind that this is true, I would compare it more to a imprint of saftey than the snake showing "preference" for the individual.

For example,

My snake shows tendencies of being more relaxed when handled by myself over others. Does he "like" me...I don't think so because when I put him next to his open tub he darts right for the closest hide, naturally because it smells like him.

Bringing all my ranting down to one thing....we fear what is unknown and unfamiliar to us, and find shelter in what is common.

I don't believe that they are something entirely different which is why I would use the term "like", for example. Now, do I think "like" for a snake is the same thing as "like" for a human? No. But, I also believe that all creatures share common underpinnings. So, while they may be radically different creatures, these shared patterns are what allow us to understand their behaviors in a meaningful way.

Take physical topology, for instance. How many animals on this planet have the same fundament anatomical pattern? When you consider the astounding variety of animals on this planet against the relatively small number of reasonably unique physiologies, you a practically forced to accept that there is a common bond. So, why accept this obvious physical pattern but then reject the idea of a mental one? It seems most likely that all creatures have the same mental patterns and that its more the "how much" part that varies.

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Originally Posted by bearhart

When you consider the astounding variety of animals on this planet against the relatively small number of reasonably unique physiologies, you a practically forced to accept that there is a common bond.

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Like the food chain? Sure. I think that's probably the closest thing I have in common with my snakes. I go to work, watch television, have hobbies, form meaningful relationships with people. My snake eats frozen mice, strikes at me if I reach in his tub too fast, and if given the opportunity, will breed to procreate his species. Just because he's different, and not human , does not make him any less or worse of a species. But why not just respect those differences for what they are.

I think they can simply tell we don't smell like food. I don't think the heat thing has much to do with it. Put your hand ( your heat sig ) w/ rat smell in the tub along w/ a rat and I would bet the snake would hit your hand first simply on the basis of the higher heat output. So if they knew heat sigs they would know yours and not strike. With bp's I think it's a smell thing.

As for them knowing us as opposed to others I think it falls back on who is relaxed and not tense.

My Ozzy could care less who holds him same w/ my albino Edgar
Now my lemon Corona he will hiss like crazy when others try to hold him but those others have been folks who weren't 100% at ease in holding him.
If someone who was at ease tried to hold him I am sure he would be chill.
They may have a slight sense to them, who knows. I know most of the mammal world reacts to a persons fear. Don't know how true that would be with repitles.

That old brain is pretty small so not much room to process a whole heck of a lot.
I think we as owners would like to think they know us and like us :)

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Originally Posted by darkangel

Like the food chain? Sure. I think that's probably the closest thing I have in common with my snakes. I go to work, watch television, have hobbies, form meaningful relationships with people. My snake eats frozen mice, strikes at me if I reach in his tub too fast, and if given the opportunity, will breed to procreate his species. Just because he's different, and not human , does not make him any less or worse of a species. But why not just respect those differences for what they are.

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Well almost all animals have two lungs, two eyes, four limbs, a brain and spinal cord, etc. That's what I'm talking about. Despite the radical variety of creatures on this planet there isn't that much variation in physical topology.

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Originally Posted by bearhart

Well almost all animals have two lungs, two eyes, four limbs, a brain and spinal cord, etc. That's what I'm talking about. Despite the radical variety of creatures on this planet there isn't that much variation in physical topology.

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Not trying to be a smartass, but some snakes only have one lung. ;)