How can a cage be too big???

Oh yea, I agree. I was just using my personal story as a way to point out that your mileage may vary, so to speak. Also, my boy isn't without limits - that's for sure. The other part of my story was meant to show how my experience with my snake colored my perception until I eventually came to understand that the snakes' personalities vary alot. I'm sometimes frusterated by handling recommendations simply because I would hate to have to leave Snakey alone for a week! I understand the idea - better safe than sorry. I wish there was a more reliable way to tell how stressed they really are without waiting for them to go off feed. I also get concerned that some of the more conservative recommendations carry some risks too.

Anyway, I didn't mean to start an argument about that subject. It was really just a long-winded way of saying that I agree that letting the snake decided was the best course of action. As they say "Different shakes for different snakes!" :D

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Originally Posted by bearhart

Oh yea, I agree. I was just using my personal story as a way to point out that your mileage may vary, so to speak. Also, my boy isn't without limits - that's for sure. The other part of my story was meant to show how my experience with my snake colored my perception until I eventually came to understand that the snakes' personalities vary alot. I'm sometimes frusterated by handling recommendations simply because I would hate to have to leave Snakey alone for a week! I understand the idea - better safe than sorry. I wish there was a more reliable way to tell how stressed they really are without waiting for them to go off feed. I also get concerned that some of the more conservative recommendations carry some risks too.

Anyway, I didn't mean to start an argument about that subject. It was really just a long-winded way of saying that I agree that letting the snake decided was the best course of action. As they say "Different shakes for different snakes!" :D

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I think the mistake you are making here in holding so steadfast to your side of the issue is this - there are exceptions to every rule and you are relying on your experience with ONE snake.

I'm not trying to belittle you or anything, but its not right to go on a message board and profess your opinion on something contrary to the findings of hundreds of large scale breeders who have dealt with thousands upon thousands of ball pythons, and come to the conclusion that they, as a whole, thrive in smaller enclosures.

What works for you is great, and if it makes you feel good to house your snake in a large enclosure and it is healthy, more power to you! That just doesn't seem to be the case for many other keepers, though.

Also keep in mind that you are treating your snake for an RI. RI's can develop when your snake is stressed (like in an enclosure that is too large and exposed), which weakens their immunity. Going off feed is not the only sign that your snake is stressed.

Just because a snake eats doesn't mean it "likes" your husbandry. It means you are doing the bear minimum for him to eat. I'm also confused on how one can know what their snake "likes". Does it say, "Hey bub, I like a big enclosure, so step over to petco and get me one o' de'm 55ers!", no, I don't think so.


Austin

IMO as long as they aren't stressed, eating regularly, and healthy, they can be housed in as large of an enclosure as you wish. You must be knowlegeable enough to be able to recognize signs of a stressed or ill snake. You also must be able to clean and sanitize the enclosure regularly, and provide the right thermal gradient.

I think there must have been some misunderstanding here. I'm not trying to say anything but that certain things vary from snake to snake. I think the previous posts in the thread show just that. Some people have found that their snakes don't like big enclosures and some have found otherwise.

If you'll re-read my second post you'll see that I pointed out that I had only ONE snake and limited experience.

With regard to Snakey's RI, he has yawned alot ever since I got him. On top of that, difficulties keeping the entire cage warm is probably the cause. In fact, he never started the mouth-wiping until I began to provide a cool-side hide (but it was too cold). Likewise, the frequency of the mouth wiping went up radically when I began to use a rheostat because everybody started freaking out when I said I had an always-on UTH. I'm not blaming anybody I'm just saying that there is always an error risk. Good advice is only good advice if its given in the right context. You have the experienced person giving advice but can't see the snake and has only someone's description to go by. On the other hand you have a less experienced person who's physically there. To analogize, you have two different people who have a view of opposite sides of the same coin, each of which is trying to draw a picture of the other side by communicating on a forum. You have to admit that's not ideal.

I wouldn't form a strong opinion on either side unless I had experience with both sides of the argument........ :)

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Originally Posted by Rapture

IMO as long as they aren't stressed, eating regularly, and healthy, they can be housed in as large of an enclosure as you wish. You must be knowlegeable enough to be able to recognize signs of a stressed or ill snake. You also must be able to clean and sanitize the enclosure regularly, and provide the right thermal gradient.

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So, we've got going off feed and RI as stress symptoms. I think their tendency to "ball" is a good indicator. Are there others?

Just an observation, but it is sometimes difficult to offer opinions and suggestions to you, because it appears that you ask for feedback, but then dismiss it and offer reasons why it doesn't apply to YOUR snake.

I understand that tone is difficult to interpret in the written word, and that may not be what you're trying to do, but I have observed on more than one occassion, good solid advice being offered by experienced keepers here and then seemingly dismissed as not applicable to your snake. It does make one pause before deciding if they want to write a thoughtful response to your questions.

Just some food for thought.

I also do want to make note of this:

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Good advice is only good advice if its given in the right context

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Please remember this when you yourself are giving advice to other new keepers if you are not sure that your information is accurate.

I get the feeling that you really are eager to learn as much as possible and offer Snakey the best home possible, but you often seem blinded by your theories of how he "should" be or how you "should" be able to do someting outside the norm. It's good to question, but not to the point that it comes across as being argumentative.

I hope that "my" tone is received in the manner that I intended which was to offer some constructive advice based on my personal observations of your posting and questioning style. :) In no way is this meant to be any sort of personal attack on you.

Bear I just wonder why you're so eager to question every aspect of suggested husbandry. Most of the people that have been breeding for years began with an enthusiasm for the animal and would want nothing less than the best care for them, and not to be rude, but I'm sure none of these are new ideas. I'm sure many different ways of keeping ball pythons has been tried over the years and now there is more or less a standard suggestion of how to set up your enclosure.