teaching bps

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

I don't know where you are getting your medical information, but the "reptilian brain" is the term that refers to the area of our brains that include the Cerebellum, Medula, Midbrain, Pons, and Brain Stem. This is the area of the brain which controls involuntary body processes and reaction to stimulus.

The area of higher-order reason that you are talking about is contained in the frontal lobes of our brain - reptiles lack this area of the brain and the subsequent reasoning and logic skills that it provides.

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Hence a snakes response's are based on ingrain self preservation not emotional decision.

I think that the snake trains its keeper more than the keeper trains the snake. If you do something that elicits a response you like, you are likely to repeat it and hope for the same results next time. The snake will respond on the basis of self-preservation, as was discussed in this thread.
The key is to make sure that if you are trying to influence your snake's behavior, you don't overstress your snake or jeopardize it's health.

In my case, when I want to see my BP to check on him during the day, I will open up the door to his cage and speak to him for a few seconds. He sticks his head out of his hide to investigate the vibrations. I know that he isn't seeking out my company, merely keeping tabs on his environment. However, I enjoy the interaction :) However, I don't do it more than once a day, and I don't make moves that elicit a fear response (like trying to 'pet' him when he pokes his head out) and I feel that in that way I am respecting his nature and not stressing him.

I choose to handle him when appropriate, but I realize that it is for my enjoyment - not his. I try to respect his needs by limiting handling time and especially by putting him back as soon as he begins to get agitated, even if that is sooner than I would like.

Anyway, I think what people are trying to get across is that projecting emotions onto a snake can be enjoyable but also can be harmful if interpreted inappropriately. For example, a BP when handled who is rapidly roaming could be interpreted by someone as being happy and excited by being out and wanting to explore like an excited child. However, someone who is careful to consider the snake's nature first and foremost will take this as a sign of stress and react appropriately by ending the handling session. So, be careful to base your interpretation of you snake's behavior/reactions on the snake's nature and not human nature. As long as you respect that, you will have a wonderful and healthy relationship for many many years to come :)

I say, if you tap and the snake comes closer and isn't adopting a strike pose, then that's great :) go ahead and enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by fishmommy

I think that the snake trains its keeper more than the keeper trains the snake.

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Great point!!

So first of all I'd like to say that I wasn't implying that anybody here in particular is full of themselves. I was referring to the tendency of the human race as a whole to differentiate themselves so cleanly from all other creatures on this planet (among a host of other questionable behaviors that we all live and struggle with). I'm not sure why people feel the need to start slinging negative feedbacks around simply because they thought that perhaps I might be implying that somebody else was conceited.

This board seems to pride itself on being a state-of-the-art, quality resource on ball-python knowledge. So, why it tolerates such cliquish behavior is beyond me. I was simply defending somebody's unique views on their pet as well as BP's in general.

Perhaps nobody was intentionally "crapping" on this person, but I've seen this kind of thread before and I can tell you its quite depressing. I don't think anybody here has a basis to tell somebody that their snake doesn't enjoy being handled, etc. I don't think comments like "why don't you get a dog or cat" are very constructive. I think perhaps training the snake to come is a long shot but as long as there isn't any abuse going on who cares? I'm not going to say its impossible. I don't know, it just seems that for a group of people so in love with a particular animal, there are alot of posts that really minimize what its capable of instead of the other way around. Aside from making sure they are being well taken care of, shouldn't we be here to celebrate the ball-python?

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Originally Posted by fishmommy

I think that the snake trains its keeper more than the keeper trains the snake. If you do something that elicits a response you like, you are likely to repeat it and hope for the same results next time. The snake will respond on the basis of self-preservation, as was discussed in this thread.
The key is to make sure that if you are trying to influence your snake's behavior, you don't overstress your snake or jeopardize it's health.

In my case, when I want to see my BP to check on him during the day, I will open up the door to his cage and speak to him for a few seconds. He sticks his head out of his hide to investigate the vibrations. I know that he isn't seeking out my company, merely keeping tabs on his environment. However, I enjoy the interaction :) However, I don't do it more than once a day, and I don't make moves that elicit a fear response (like trying to 'pet' him when he pokes his head out) and I feel that in that way I am respecting his nature and not stressing him.

I choose to handle him when appropriate, but I realize that it is for my enjoyment - not his. I try to respect his needs by limiting handling time and especially by putting him back as soon as he begins to get agitated, even if that is sooner than I would like.

Anyway, I think what people are trying to get across is that projecting emotions onto a snake can be enjoyable but also can be harmful if interpreted inappropriately. For example, a BP when handled who is rapidly roaming could be interpreted by someone as being happy and excited by being out and wanting to explore like an excited child. However, someone who is careful to consider the snake's nature first and foremost will take this as a sign of stress and react appropriately by ending the handling session. So, be careful to base your interpretation of you snake's behavior/reactions on the snake's nature and not human nature. As long as you respect that, you will have a wonderful and healthy relationship for many many years to come :)

I say, if you tap and the snake comes closer and isn't adopting a strike pose, then that's great :) go ahead and enjoy it.

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Agreed! I think this is a very realistic and well-put peice of advice.

And, if your snake comes to you when you tap it, I think that's AWESOME and I doubt there's much in the way of alternate interpretations there. Just don't start pressuring him to pick a college too soon. :D

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Originally Posted by bearhart

So first of all I'd like to say that I wasn't implying that anybody here in particular is full of themselves. I was referring to the tendency of the human race as a whole to differentiate themselves so cleanly from all other creatures on this planet (among a host of other questionable behaviors that we all live and struggle with). I'm not sure why people feel the need to start slinging negative feedbacks around simply because they thought that perhaps I might be implying that somebody else was conceited.

This board seems to pride itself on being a state-of-the-art, quality resource on ball-python knowledge. So, why it tolerates such cliquish behavior is beyond me. I was simply defending somebody's unique views on their pet as well as BP's in general.

Perhaps nobody was intentionally "crapping" on this person, but I've seen this kind of thread before and I can tell you its quite depressing. I don't think anybody here has a basis to tell somebody that their snake doesn't enjoy being handled, etc. I don't think comments like "why don't you get a dog or cat" are very constructive. I think perhaps training the snake to come is a long shot but as long as there isn't any abuse going on who cares? I'm not going to say its impossible. I don't know, it just seems that for a group of people so in love with a particular animal, there are alot of posts that really minimize what its capable of instead of the other way around. Aside from making sure they are being well taken care of, shouldn't we be here to celebrate the ball-python?

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I just don't understand why the people in defense of their ball pythons in these threads take descriptions of their natural behavior to be negative. There's nothing wrong with your snake not having the same feelings and emotions you do. I think that's the bigger problem.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to fishmommy again.


Excellent post! Very well put. :)

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Originally Posted by darkangel

I just don't understand why the people in defense of their ball pythons in these threads take descriptions of their natural behavior to be negative. There's nothing wrong with your snake not having the same feelings and emotions you do. I think that's the bigger problem.

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Well I think it goes something like this: You go to a store and get a new pet and instantly start falling in love with it (not flowers and such but whatever you want to call the attachment you get to a pet). You love it so much you want to explore everything about it so you go online to ball-pythons.net. You are very excited and have all sorts of hopes for your pet being a good buddy for many years to come and wonder about what sorts of neat quirky personality things you might discover, etc... You post a message and a bunch of people promptly tell you that your snake is incapable of appreciating you, merely tolerates your company, and so on. That experience was truly upsetting and a major bummer for me.

I just think people should tread more delicately here. I think that there are some real important issues here about people incorrectly projecting emotions onto their snake and, as a result, unwittingly abuse them. But, also, these are ultimately pets and so we should also be sensitive to that and strive to enhance that experience.

I feel that it's the truth. Your snake is not going to want to please you and love you... etc.
If you think that, and then later on it bites you as a feeding response, then you're going to really be disappointed and wonder why it happened. If you accept your reptile for what it is, and appriciate it for it's very gorgeous nature, then you'll shrug off that bite and smile at the great feeding response.
I think the OP is really into his new snake, and is impressed with it. That's great! I love my snakes too! I think the idea of training a snake is a neat one, just not something I expect to actually work.
No one should give negative feedback just because someone has a different opinion though. We all have our own opinions and they don't always mesh.

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Originally Posted by bearhart

This board seems to pride itself on being a state-of-the-art, quality resource on ball-python knowledge. So, why it tolerates such cliquish behavior is beyond me. I was simply defending somebody's unique views on their pet as well as BP's in general.

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:confused: You speak of "this board" as if it has a personality and will of its own. It doesn't. It's just a collective of individuals who work hard to freely offer as much information and help as they can to those who seek it. And each individual is going to go about that in their own way. Not all of it is agreeable. Not all of it will fit into anyone's idea of a "perfect society" that "behaves the way it should." Certainly not mine. There's LOTS of stuff that is said here that I don't particularly like or agree with. However, I respect everyone's right to say it. I can't decide who gets to say what based simply on what ~I~ like or don't like.

But...if I feel strongly enough about what someone has said...I can certainly voice my disagreement, either in a public post, a PM, or with a rep point....whichever I believe is most suited to the circumstances. There's nothing wrong with that.

You think most of the folks in this thread are being too militant about the fact that snake's don't feel and react to the world based on human emotions. I think you're wrong to try and tell everyone else what sort of information they should try and impart. But you still get to say it. ;) And I get to disagree.

My personal opinion....for anyone who feels THAT strongly about anthropomorphizing their pet snake that they are crushed by being told the snake doesn't "love" them or even "like" them...they NEED to hear it in order to bring them to a realm of realistic expectations about their new pet. Otherwise, they are likely in for an even deeper hurt and/or disappointment later on down the road when the snake inevitably acts utterly contrary to what they thought it should "feel."