First Cull...

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

And no, they do not suffocate when they are constricted. The blood actually ceases to flow to the brain, therefore cutting off oxygen. So the mouse, in essence, faints. CO2 chambers do about the same thing. Replacing oxygen with carbon dioxide slowly, and fainting occur, which is then followed by death since the brain isn't receiving any oxygen.

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I'm most definately not supporting the "whacking" methodology, or argueing against the heart of your post which is meant to say the mouse doesn't stop breathing. However if I'm not mistaken, suffocation means lack of oxygen, whether it is via stopping the lungs or replacing O2 with CO2. I guess my point is to say that saying the mice/rats suffocate when constricted is in fact the case. Because whether or not they are breathing, the O2 doesn't get where it needs to go. (this is not to say the experience of being in a CO2 chamber is the same as being drowned or choked just they both share in common the basic definition of suffocation i.e. lack of oxygen to vital body parts)

Now back on topic. I personnaly wish I had found this site sooner than I had for the very reason that I wish I knew how to feed my snake properly. Back when I got my first king snake about 10 years ago, the guy working the petstore had told me to stun my mice for feeding. It was something I never liked doing, but that's what the guy had told me. I now know that petstore employees are just a "wealth of knowledge", and you should trust them about half as far as you can throw them.

Now I just feed live. I cannot do the whole stunning or pre-killing thing anymore. However I do breed my own mice and have had several unexpected litters, or abnormally large litters in my time so I know that if the time comes I'll just look up the sticky we have here on using the dry ice trick to take care of a few if absolutely needed. I love my mice almost as much as I love my snakes. I mean seriously, my mice make pasta! How cool is that? :carrot:

Jake, although I agree that the c-spine method CAN be very humane I would never reccomend it for the fact that if you do it wrong then you have a mouse that is crippled and in pain. I understand you have to start somewhere but this is not the best way for someone who isn't taught how to do it properly. Theres something about mice that makes this really loose and I've heard about a lot of vet schools that refuse to work with mice simply because you could kill the mouse trying to restrain it since the mice are so flexible and loose. Even so, unless shown I feel that it's not the best way to go. just my opinion though

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Originally Posted by qiksilver

Jake, although I agree that the c-spine method CAN be very humane I would never reccomend it for the fact that if you do it wrong then you have a mouse that is crippled and in pain. I understand you have to start somewhere but this is not the best way for someone who isn't taught how to do it properly. Theres something about mice that makes this really loose and I've heard about a lot of vet schools that refuse to work with mice simply because you could kill the mouse trying to restrain it since the mice are so flexible and loose. Even so, unless shown I feel that it's not the best way to go. just my opinion though

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Anyone with any skill can dislocate the neck with a little practice. I did a little reading about it and got it right the first time. All there is as with MOST euthanizing of rodents was the twitching.
Also, even gassing can and does go wrong from time to time if you don't measure the CO2 concentrations first. The result, screaming, gasping, and jumping rats and mice that are far from humanely killed.

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

Anyone with any skill can dislocate the neck with a little practice. I did a little reading about it and got it right the first time. All there is as with MOST euthanizing of rodents was the twitching

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It's like a chicken with it's head cut off... literally. However, being a goose hunter, I know that when you wring an animals neck, although quick, does cause great discomfort and can be poorly executed which would put the animal through unbelievable agony before the little bugger ever makes it to the snake cage.

My point is, if I was to pre-kill my food, I would use a method that is known to be as humane as death can be. And in this case the best way would be to use a CO2 chamber. Whether that is through dry-ice in a cooler, or the CO2 tank hooked up to a chamber.

A few suggestions on euthanasia from various university research sources...

- cervical dislocation should not be performed on any rodent over 125 grams

- newborn rodents are more resistant to CO2 (actually to hypoxia, lack of oxygen to the brain) and it may take up to 2 or 3 times more exposure to assure death

- this seems to start to change more towards the adult response sometime around day 8 to 14

- some rearch facilities (mostly university protocols) said it was okay to freeze newborn aka pinkie rats and mice (less than 8 days of age) as a method of humane euthansia, others disagreed

For pinkies, I just tend to do a flick of the head and into the freezer. They are USUALLY frozen within 5 minutes

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For pinkies, I just tend to do a flick of the head and into the freezer. They are USUALLY frozen within 5 minutes

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Same thing here. It is the best thing I can think of for them.

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Originally Posted by JabbaTheMutts

next time put it in a brown lunch bag and give it a good wack on the wall. It's faster for you and the mouse.

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OMG :puke:

This makes me glad that I feed live to all of my snakes. I used to do the whack-against-concrete-floor method, and quite honestly, the rat would die instantly. I never saw a problem with it, and if I need to do it again, this is the method I will use, because the rat dies instantly.. But I would never recommend anyone doing it who is squeamish; any hesitation would minimize the force needed to inflict instant death, and cause suffering, which is unneeded and unconscionable.
I seriously do not like the way that whacking was used in this thread.. but when I do it myself, I see nothing wrong with it.. again, it is instant death with maybe a muscle twitch, that is it.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

This makes me glad that I feed live to all of my snakes. I used to do the whack-against-concrete-floor method, and quite honestly, the rat would die instantly. I never saw a problem with it, and if I need to do it again, this is the method I will use, because the rat dies instantly.. But I would never recommend anyone doing it who is squeamish; any hesitation would minimize the force needed to inflict instant death, and cause suffering, which is unneeded and unconscionable.
I seriously do not like the way that whacking was used in this thread.. but when I do it myself, I see nothing wrong with it.. again, it is instant death with maybe a muscle twitch, that is it.

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Agreed withe the bold part(except i don't feed live to the boas). 1 single hit and the rat is dead. Drop it in the tub and the snake usually sses it as live and goes for it. A good solid swing is a sure way to cause INSTANT death. I switched from Whacking to cervical dislocation. The twitching seems to be more intense with the latter but the blood is almost never seen which is a plus.