Poor Python died... looking for a reason

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quadrophenia

There are expos by me (north Chicago) every other week that I've been going to. I just dug up some of the cards...
Ron Billingsley Reptiles @ www.ronbillingsleyreptiles.com
I just checked the link and it's garbage though. I talked to Ron a good deal.
Here's another
www.ballpython777.com These guys too agreed with Ron's 88.

These are all I have in front of me... I think a few others are in my car. I'm hitting the sack in a sec, but I will post back tomorrow.

---

I guarantee that none of those guys will tell you that temps in the low 70's or high 60's are good for a ball python ... get it yet?

-adam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

No one is talking about 85. What I am saying (that again you're not understanding) is that with no heat on the cool side, those temps could have gotten down into the low 70's or high 60's which can and certainly will cause a URI.

-adam

---

No, I understood you completely. And I admitted the mistakes in my observations & gave you credit in my previous post. You managed to take everything I said completely out of context. Christ adam, you may own 500+ ball pythons, but I don't appreciate your response.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quadrophenia

Christ adam, you may own 500+ ball pythons, but I don't appreciate your response.

---

WHOA NOW!
I think you may want to re-word that. Adam was clearly informing you that what you have heard and read is not best or right thing in favor to the snakes. Maybe I missed it, but how long have you been in to ball pythons/owned a ball python? I know you wrote you are more like a "PG rating".

Adam is a very good breeder who knows his stuff. I'd listen to it and I have listened to a lot of his advice aka wisdom. There are a lot of other breeders here who will back up what he has told you. He's not making any of this up. People who keep their snakes living in those cold temps - will end up with a dead snake no doubt who died probably from a RI which are not nice things to die from!

I work for a guy who keeps his BP's thriving in 93-95 degree and has all his breeders set at 100 right at this very second. They have been in that 100 degree heat for over a month now. Everyone is still alive and fine. He's been doing that for years so I've been told and I don't have any reason not to believe it.

Who cares if people aka breeders you know and who you have talked to at Expo's/Show's, etc don't like this site. You? Don't like it then leave. But I do encourage you to stay a while and learn from some really great BP owners and breeders here. We don't tell people to do wrong things with their animals, but I can whole heartily say that most of the people here will jump right in and help you when you have a problem or question concerning your snake.

Adam is undoubtedly an extremely knowledgable person, and I'd follow his advice any day...I learn something everytime he goes off on a rant like this.

However....he's not always very tactful or polite, and sometimes he's downright pissy and abrasive. If I was on the receiving end of this last thread, it would certainly have rubbed me the wrong way.

It's quite possible to re-educate someone without putting them on the spot, particularly when that someone admits they don't know as much and are willing to learn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slartibartfast

Adam is undoubtedly an extremely knowledgable person, and I'd follow his advice any day...I learn something everytime he goes off on a rant like this.

However....he's not always very tactful or polite, and sometimes he's downright pissy and abrasive. If I was on the receiving end of this last thread, it would certainly have rubbed me the wrong way.

It's quite possible to re-educate someone without putting them on the spot, particularly when that someone admits they don't know as much and are willing to learn.

---

If you re-read the thread...look at each post he made. He started out friendly and helpful. When the person didn't want to hear it and dismissed his advice based on information from other unnamed "breeders," he became a little more direct with each post and called the person out on it.

Sure, its possible to re-educate someone without putting them on the spot. But if that person won't hear it and chooses to defend their ego instead of absorb the right information, at least other people looking at this thread with an open mind will know what source of info is good and what source is doo-doo. I think thats what its really all about.

i am so sorry for you loss. loosing a beloved pet, regardless of what kind leaves a whole in your life. :hug:

i would like to thank you though for this wonderful learning experience for the rest of us. adam is a wealth of knowledge and reading his words in this thread teaches us all a little something.

sending healing hugs your way!
aleesha

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slartibartfast

Adam is undoubtedly an extremely knowledgable person, and I'd follow his advice any day...I learn something everytime he goes off on a rant like this.

However....he's not always very tactful or polite, and sometimes he's downright pissy and abrasive. If I was on the receiving end of this last thread, it would certainly have rubbed me the wrong way.

It's quite possible to re-educate someone without putting them on the spot, particularly when that someone admits they don't know as much and are willing to learn.

---

Jess,

Thank you for the kind words and the your very honest feedback ... I completely understand your point of view and don't blame you at all for feeling the way you do.

It was 3 in the morning and while all I was doing was trying to be helpful, I had someone with almost zero experience telling me that keeping ball pythons the way I have been keeping them for 20 years (and enjoying a good deal of success with my collection BTW) is wrong ... abrasive is hardly the word for how I was actually feeling when I was posting last night ... I tried my best to be respectful to the site and believe me when I say it could have gone down a lot worse.

My number one pet peeve is when people new to or experienced in the hobby get on the internet and try to tell everyone how things "should be" and don't appreciate or respect that others with orders of magnitude more experience working with these animals (and I'm not just talking about myself here, I'm talking about the ball python community as a whole) are probably somewhere doing things differently with great success.

In the two+ years I've been a member here I've preached and soap boxed and screamed one basic principle over and over and that is this: "There are many ways to keep these animals successfully" ... When people can't or refuse to respect that I get more than a little agitated just as I would if someone were to tell me how I "should be" raising my child, what my religion "should be", or attempt to decide any other thing for me based on their own personal beliefs.

I think it's entirely possible to share the way you do things and what you believe in without telling others that what they're doing successfully "doesn't work" just because it's not the way you do it ... But I guess not everyone does.

If expressing my views or standing up for what I believe in rubs some people the wrong way ... I don't care ... All I can do is be myself ... I don't pretend in being "someone else" just for the sake of people liking me or selling animals ... the compromise just isn't worth it to me.

-adam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quadrophenia

There are expos by me (north Chicago) every other week that I've been going to. I just dug up some of the cards...
Ron Billingsley Reptiles @ www.ronbillingsleyreptiles.com
I just checked the link and it's garbage though. I talked to Ron a good deal.
Here's another
www.ballpython777.com These guys too agreed with Ron's 88.

These are all I have in front of me... I think a few others are in my car. I'm hitting the sack in a sec, but I will post back tomorrow.

---

Folks all i have to say is notice where he "got his info" (as in place) from.This should explain his confusion of the PROPER temps needed for ball pythons.Now back to our regular program :8: :8: .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Jess,

Thank you for the kind words and the your very honest feedback ... I completely understand your point of view and don't blame you at all for feeling the way you do.

It was 3 in the morning and while all I was doing was trying to be helpful, I had someone with almost zero experience telling me that keeping ball pythons the way I have been keeping them for 20 years (and enjoying a good deal of success with my collection BTW) is wrong ... abrasive is hardly the word for how I was actually feeling when I was posting last night ... I tried my best to be respectful to the site and believe me when I say it could have gone down a lot worse.

My number one pet peeve is when people new to or experienced in the hobby get on the internet and try to tell everyone how things "should be" and don't appreciate or respect that others with orders of magnitude more experience working with these animals (and I'm not just talking about myself here, I'm talking about the ball python community as a whole) are probably somewhere doing things differently with great success.

In the two+ years I've been a member here I've preached and soap boxed and screamed one basic principle over and over and that is this: "There are many ways to keep these animals successfully" ... When people can't or refuse to respect that I get more than a little agitated just as I would if someone were to tell me how I "should be" raising my child, what my religion "should be", or attempt to decide any other thing for me based on their own personal beliefs.

I think it's entirely possible to share the way you do things and what you believe in without telling others that what they're doing successfully "doesn't work" just because it's not the way you do it ... But I guess not everyone does.

If expressing my views or standing up for what I believe in rubs some people the wrong way ... I don't care ... All I can do is be myself ... I don't pretend in being "someone else" just for the sake of people liking me or selling animals ... the compromise just isn't worth it to me.

-adam

---

Great post Christ Adam! People hate to be told that something they are doing may not be right. I know what's what and who to believe. Guys like Adam, RDR, PKR, NERD...Real deal breeders that get it done, year in and year out. Nothing against the Billingsley's and Petros's of the world of course, but they don't even compare in terms of experience. Believe what you like but don't get all pissy when someone tries to set you straight.

I do have sympathy for anyone that chooses to challenge Adam on his board. :D At the same time, his success speaks for itself.

In VPI's new book, they recommend ambient temps of 78-80 degrees and a "basking" spot of 86 degrees.
At the same time they deny having quantifiable data on the "ideal range of temperatures"...

To each his own.