Reptile Pricing, selling, and the market

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Problem is, most people don't want to market themselves or wait. Most of these guys on KS just want to sell, sell, sell and prefer to have a 24hr sale or weekend sale or 4th of July sale where they going from $2000-$1700-$1500-$1200-$1000 week after week until the snake is sold. Some of them aren't even breeders, just middle men who buy from breeders cheap and flip the snakes for a profit!

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This is exactly what I'm talking about. This IS what is going to happen if we let it. Yeah, sure the Kahl's had a good run, but in the last year alone they have dropped so bad in price that they will soon be like the albino burmese. BS. They deserve better than to be sold for 200 each. The Sharp line WILL skyrocket, the whole market will blow up...soon. If they aren't carefully watched and decently marketed...they will end up like the Kahl's, only sooner. That is the shame of it all.

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Originally Posted by BALLISTIC BOAS

he probably has 20-25 adult females producing each year. so who knows exactly how many he produces. if you watch his dvd that he put out with the backers you see that he has walls that are lined with hundreds of tubs.

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I would estimate he does have 20-25 adult females. Even if 1/2 of them dropped this year, that's about 300-400 babies, 150/200 Salmons. He'll place some up for sale this year, some up for sale next year as yearlings, and then a few more here and there, and do it all over again next year.

You don't see guys like Rich having a weekend sale for 25% off this week and another 25% off next week! But, you and I both know they will negotiate prices, but it's done privately!

Mike (Basically Boas) will cut prices, but he'll adjust prices after 3-6-12 months of a snake not selling, not a weekend.

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Originally Posted by jim020cricket

This is exactly what I'm talking about. This IS what is going to happen if we let it. Yeah, sure the Kahl's had a good run, but in the last year alone they have dropped so bad in price that they will soon be like the albino burmese. BS. They deserve better than to be sold for 200 each. The Sharp line WILL skyrocket, the whole market will blow up...soon. If they aren't carefully watched and decently marketed...they will end up like the Kahl's, only sooner. That is the shame of it all.

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It is a shame, like I said before, some of these morphs deserve more and are expected to do more! Look at the MoonGlow, when 1st produced..the word priceless was thrown around a lot! Have you looked on KS? MoonGlow...$15,000 down to $12,500 and soon if not sold, $10,000.

Look at the Scoria Boa, amazing morph IMO! Only one Scoria sold and sold for $20,000 in a matter of minutes, most breeders said that was cheap, he could've gotten $25k-$30k!! Where is it today, any post, any thread any information on them? I hope they pop up again!

There is really no way to control supply & demand and price once it hits the public. You can delay it by keeping it close to people you trust will keep the integrity for another 2-3yrs and/or only sell Hets or females and prolong it's production for a few years that way, but sooner or latter the masses will get them and start pumping them out like M&M's.

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Originally Posted by ssscales

It is a shame

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I agree ... the real shame is that for every jobber that is quick to devalue these amazing animals by dropping prices to rediculously low levels there is a line of people with cash in hand waiting to support them.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I agree ... the real shame is that for every jobber that is quick to devalue these amazing animals by dropping prices to rediculously low levels there is a line of people with cash in hand waiting to support them.

-adam

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It's not just a few buyers that need to support these animals and give them proper value, it's the breeders and sellers themselves. This would not be a problem if everyone selling these snakes posted $1000 firm and kept it at that regardless, even if it was just publicly. In a free market environment, it's impossible to control.

Asking Timmy or Billy to pay $5000 for a snake he could buy down the street for $1000 is stretching it a bit. The problem lies with the sellers not the buyers, you can't blame anyone for wanting to save money or shopping around, we do it every day of our lives when buying a home, car, groceries, electronics, clothes, etc, etc, etc. The problem lies with the sellers with no regard to the market as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I agree ... the real shame is that for every jobber that is quick to devalue these amazing animals by dropping prices to rediculously low levels there is a line of people with cash in hand waiting to support them.

-adam

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Said like a champ. Very true.

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Originally Posted by ssscales

It's not just a few buyers that need to support these animals and give them proper value, it's the breeders and sellers themselves. This would not be a problem if everyone selling these snakes posted $1000 firm and kept it at that regardless, even if it was just publicly. In a free market environment, it's impossible to control.

Asking Timmy or Billy to pay $5000 for a snake he could buy down the street for $1000 is stretching it a bit. The problem lies with the sellers not the buyers, you can't blame anyone for wanting to save money or shopping around, we do it every day of our lives when buying a home, car, groceries, electronics, clothes, etc, etc, etc. The problem lies with the sellers with no regard to the market as a whole.

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I think what he meant was that without this overflow of people wanting the best for next to nothing, these "breeders" would learn to control the market better. What I read out of it, is it goes both ways. No one group is solely responsible for the drop in prices. I used to believe that the people controlled the market, but gas prices have proved me wrong. The suppliers control the market, which is what you said Gerry. They aren't only to blame though. A small amount of blame goes to those who don't know any better and don't really research and understand that those with the cheaper prices (in this subject) doesn't always mean it's better. I would pay 900 for an albino from Mike, even if Joe Shmoe has one for 600. I buy for peace of mind, not for the cheaper snake.

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Originally Posted by ssscales

The problem lies with the sellers with no regard to the market as a whole.

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I agree 100%.

But, I also feel that would be "breeders" aquiring thier stock from those "sellers" have a responsiblity to the market as well ... Many times it's the same people that are online crying about what a shame it is to see prices at certain levels that are also meeting outcast dealers in the parking lots of convenience stores buying animals for cash at 1/2 their market value.

I could not care less about Jimmy, Timmy, Lucy, or Sue ... but if someone is going to dump on the market, they should be honest about it and say "I don't give a rats ace about the market, I'm going to get my deals." ... there are too many phonies in this business.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I agree 100%.

But, I also feel that would be "breeders" aquiring thier stock from those "sellers" have a responsiblity to the market as well ... Many times it's the same people that are online crying about what a shame it is to see prices at certain levels that are also meeting outcast dealers in the parking lots of convenience stores buying animals for cash at 1/2 their market value.

I could not care less about Jimmy, Timmy, Lucy, or Sue ... but if someone is going to dump on the market, they should be honest about it and say "I don't give a rats ace about the market, I'm going to get my deals." ... there are too many phonies in this business.

-adam

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Absolutely, but..how do you control what anyone does in a free market? That's the problem, sellers aren't held accountable for absolutely anything to do with price adjustments!

It's not the buyers fault because they bought for less, you can't blame the public for paying less when the option is given to them. Sure you get what you pay for and in most cases, that's a good assumption! There is a lot of crap being put out there! But, this is not just 2-3 sellers selling crap in a parking lot! If it was and everyone else held their prices, worse case those 2-3 would've sold out and that would've been it.

Say 8Ball Pythons that sold it's Spiders this year for $1500/$2500 Vs $4000/$5000 last year? Are they cheaper Spiders, lower quality Spiders, defective Spiders? Or are they the same great quality Spiders that just cost less because that's the adjusted price based on todays market and what Adam feels he can get for his Spiders based on that market? A market that has been adjusted by other sellers who feel they will reduce prices until they move those snakes.

Problem is, every time they drop $200, someone else drops $250 and so on! Who controls that market adjusted price that states a Spider BP or Albino Boa will sell for this much this year?

How can you control this?

I'm not talking about controlling anything ... and I'm not talking about the public at large ... I'm talking about "breeders" or would be "breeders" that go online and say it's a shame to see prices drop and behind the scenes they are the first ones to pounce on a "deal" from a low baller. Then the following year or two when that "breeder" starts producing, they'll be telling people what a great investment the morphs that they are producing are in order to sell animals ... what a crock.

It has NOTHING to do with "control" and everything to do with honesty, trust, and believing in the market that you are making money from or planning to make money from ... some people do their best to support their customers, maximize their customers investments, and actually believe in what they are doing .... others crap all over their own customers and/or potential customers, sometimes even before they sell a single animal.

But all this is nothing new, it's been that way forever and it will always be that way. :rockon:

-adam