Soon To Be New Owner(I hope!) Questions.

Awesome info as always, Jo! Has somebodied stickied that yet!?

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Originally Posted by Mygaera

That would be me! As the more level-headed of the two, I'm glad she drug me over here and made me start reading in preparation for this. I've been a fan of snakes for a long time now, so finally making the plans to acquire one is a big thing we're both reall excited about!

Yeah, questions...

First and foremost, I'm a bit worried about temperature. I absolutely understand the need for constant heating, and have picked up that having two different temperature regions is important, too (one section/half slightly cooler than the other). What concerns me more is the temperature outside the enclosure. LSama forgot to mention that our shared space is a basement. We keep it pretty cool down here year around... is this something we're going to have to change?

I've also seen it mentioned more than once that BPs are "shy"; how shy are we talking here? I understand that each critter is unique, but in general - temperment-wise - is too much handling going to be stressful for them? I don't know about her (or any of you for that matter!) but I'm going to have a pretty hard time keeping my hands off! I will if I have to, of course, but how sociable can we be with the "slitherbaby"?

Also, thanks for the reassurance about the music. I admit it, I'm an addict - but my cravings are far more melodic than bass-ic, and knowing that both reptile and audiophile can cohabitate eases my mind considerably.

Oh, and backing up a bit, on the topic of 'shy' snakes and stress and whatnot... lets talk about kids. Okay, just one kid. One very well behaved, intelligent and inquisitive seven year old little girl (those are LSama's words, verbatim). She's never really seen a snake close up, and while she rarely comes down into the basement... well, how has anyone here handled the acclimation between snake and child, making it as un-stressful as possible for BOTH?

That's about it for now, but I betcha there'll be more questions before we're off to MARS!

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Glad you're here too. Sounds like the new snake will be beautifully cared for as you both are so dedicated to understanding it's unique needs.

The temp issues should be covered in my response to your roomie. If you get your setup all done well before you get the snake you can figure out what you need to tweak to hit the desired environment. It does take time to set it all up and best do that without stressing a new baby while you mess with the tank.

As far as handling remember it's for us humans not the snake. They do need handling but they can learn to tolerate it. Just remember the baby is a baby...it needs to adjust...learn you are not the predators that it's instincts say you are. Short handling sessions of no more than a few quiet moments are best. Don't handle at all the first week or until you have a few successful feeds into it. Priority is eating, handling will come in time and this snake will be around for many years so lots of time for that really. Never handle for 48 hours after it eats as it's busy digesting then.

We have kids and we find that for them snake handling is a pure joy. They did have to learn that a snake is not a puppy or kitten and that getting to hold the snake is a present from the snake...a gift it allows. If they don't act responsibly, they don't get the gift of handling. It helps to bring home books from the library as children are so inquisitive. If you keep reminding your daughter that this is a very special pet and needs very special things and then let her participate in watering, etc. that often helps. Also looking at pics online and discussing how they poop, pee, eat, shed is very cool for kids. Promise that she can take the first shed to school or pics of the baby to show her friends. Remind her that she is HUGE to the baby snake and needs to remember to not scare the baby or it won't learn she is a friend that won't hurt it. Always closely supervise handling with kids and remember to wash with soap and water or anti-bacterial hand wash gel anytime the touch the snake or help clean it's enclosure.

Again a pic. Our 5 year old son handling one of our snakes (male BP at about 10 months old). He considers it a very big deal and is always proud of himself (often says "look mom I did it right and the snake likes me now!) Mikey knows he must be sitting down to hold a snake, not to try to touch their heads too much and to use one arm/hand to keep a firm hold on the snake while he gently strokes it. I think interacting with snakes is great for kids. They learn respect for difference in pets, patience, empathy, etc. as well as the predator/prey dynamic (letting them watch a feed, especially a live one is up to you and sometimes dependent on age/maturity...our 5 year old for instance does not watch our live feeds as he helps raise our rat colony and is very bonded to the baby rats right now).

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...MikeyMay06.jpg

Couple more things....

As far as what to get for a baby snake, since you have a child I'll use that as an example. You know when you are preparing for your first baby you get told the million and one things you ABSOLUTELY MUST have. Then you find out realistically you need a decent crib, a sturdy stroller, diapers, onesies and a pile of clean sleepers - all the rest is window dressing you quickly find out and just more stuff to wash. Sorta like that LOL.

Aspen is a great substrate, just never buy pine or cedar or any bedding you aren't totally sure is safe. WalMart sells a wonderful bag of fine shred aspen for less than $4.00 (they should give me kickbacks I swear LOL). It is compressed so you'll be surprised at how far it goes for one snake. If you are concerned about accidental ingestion put a pad of newspaper over it on feeding night but remember these are creatures designed to eat whole prey in a messy, dirty wild environment. Their stomach acids easily digest hair, bones and teeth completely so a scrap of aspen isn't going to cause any real issues.

Exploding f/t prey. Buy them from a good source where the prey is frozen well and not busted up or covered in feces is the first thing. Warm them in ziploc baggies floating in hot tap water after allowing some time to start to defrost. Never microwave. You are not likely to see a lot of exploding...that's mostly from overheating or refreezing and reheating. If you see any it will be in the pinky rat stage where the belly skin is still very thin but really it's rare. If you want and have access to a PetCo they usually have very nice frozen rats/mice that you can buy a few feedings at a time. That way you can see how it goes and then decide what's best as far as feeding method.

Remember when you purchase your baby to get all info on feeding. What type of prey (mice or rats)....what method of feeding (live, pre-killed or frozen/thawed)...what size of prey (pinky, fuzzy, etc. *see our Feeder FAQ for info on sizes or check out www.rodentpro.com) The more you know, the better prepared you are to mimic what the baby snake is used to and be more successful for your first feedings. You can always work on changing something later but best to go with how the breeder has been feeding at first. If you don't wish to live feed, avoid buying a live feeding baby for instance. Never buy a baby snake that hasn't shed yet or hasn't successfully fed for the breeder (good breeders shouldn't be offering those for sale but best warned ahead I figure).

Find out now if you don't know, what to look for in a healthy baby BP. Be very picky about which one you want at the show. Better to come home empty handed than take on a sickly baby. We just lost a baby BP we bought at a show recently (a small local show) and looking back we realize we got caught up in her beauty and didn't ask enough of the clear questions from the breeder that we know we should have.

Just to answer some of your questions about dry ice....I've never worked with it myself, so I don't know how long it lasts or how to keep it from disappearing....but I can ease your fears about the gas it gives off. CO2 is just part of the air we breathe. You create CO2 every time you exhale. It's not dangerous in the least. Dry ice is just frozen CO2....and so if you put it in a small container, it floods the container with CO2 and pushes out all the oxygen. It's not the CO2 that kills the rodent, it's the sudden lack of oxygen.


That's my understanding of it. I may be a bit off on the mechanics, but I know for sure the gas thats released is harmless. :)

As you've surely found by now, everyone has their own way of doing things. I got my first snake three weeks ago and wish I hadn't waited so long. For what it's worth, here's my experience.

1. Picking one out. I adopted one that was advertised in the local classified. Before committing, I visited twice, once to check him out for the first time and see how he handled being handled and the second time to see him eat. It was also advantageous to see how he'd been living. The setup wasn't good: The previous owner had moved back in with his snake-hating parents two months earlier and he was being kept in a bare 10-gallon aquarium with another ball in a basement bathroom. No hides, no heaters, no thermometers, no nothing. I'm guessing the temperture was in the 70s. It was clear this was a temporary arrangement, but still. He didn't mind being handled by a stranger--I cuddled with him for about 20 minutes the first time--and he had no problems eating a F/T mouse. Any snake that seemed so healthy and well-mannered in that environment, I figured, must be a good one. I came and got him five days after his last meal. And I didn't worry about anyone else snapping him up. For better or for worse, snakes are hard sells. This guy had five--two balls, a blood, a sand boa and a red tail boa--and I was the first to adopt one three weeks after his ad appeared. I live in a city of about 112,000 people,and the baby balls didn't fly out the door of the local pet store when they were on sale for $30 (they normally sell for $80). So don't think you have to get one RIGHT
NOW before someone else snaps him up. In my experience, that wasn' a problem. I gave the guy $25, but he would've given him up for free (I know, because his dad told me).

2. His cage. At first, I was going to use a 55-gallon aquarium, but opted for a 20-gallon setup. I was also going to scrimp and get a cheap thermostat, but decided on the Herpstat unit because $100 isn't really that much money in the grand scheme of things, and temperatures are vital. I opted for UTH exclusively (we'll see how it goes when winter comes) and have had zero problems with heat or humidity. I'm using a screen top that I figure I'll have to partially cover when the air around here dries out come fall, then go for the occasional mist--works great for the hermit crabs I have, which require 80-plus degrees and 80-percent humidity. For substrate, I bought two Lizard Liners, green like Astroturf (which I rejected because the stuff for sale around here seemed too scratchy), and I couldn't be happier. When he relieves himself (happens about once a week), I just pull the liner out and rotate. The liners are super-easy to clean, I just blast them with the garden hose outside. They're dry in a few hours. He's got a rubber branch to crawl on (and he uses it regularly at night) and identical hides on either side of the tank (I got the ones that look like rocks). A CorningWare dish in the middle for his water, and an Acu-Rite thermometer/hygrometer from Lowes and that's it. Again, everyone has their own way, and I don't think there's any wrong way (so long as size and temp and humidity and other basics are followed), but I really like the tank. At night, he gets active and likes to crawl around. He's in a quiet part of the house, but doesn't mind if I watch, which is big fun. I wouldn't get that pleasure if he was in a plastic tub. So far, the cleaning hasn't been bad at all. Like I say, I swap out the lizard liner about once a week, which takes less than five minutes. I suppose I'll wash out the tank every month or so with a weak bleach solution and plenty of rinsing, but I haven't had him that long (and if anyone can tell me whether that's really necessary--he seems like a real clean animal and there's no dirt I can see on the tank itself--I'd really appreciate it). Cleaning, sterilizing and rinsing the tank (I got it secondhand) took about twenty minutes when I first got it. If it turns out I need to do it every month or so, I'll put him in his feeding tub (I've got a Rubbermaid job with airholes drilled in the top) with a F/T while I tidy up his house.

3. Vibration. Yes, they are VERY sensitive to vibration, so much so that I've ditched the nylon backpack-style straps I used initially to secure his cage top (I use clips now). When I undid the straps, the vibration from the nylon rubbing against the metal top and the plastic buckle drove him nuts.

4. I don't work there or have any stock in the company, but I would recommend Reptile Supply as a place to outfit your snake's home. Their prices are way, way better than at the local pet shop. I stumbled across them on the Internet. I received my order five days after placing it. One of the hides was broken, and they shipped out a replacement the next day. Total cost was $167 for the Herpstat thermometer, a Cobra heat mat, two lizard liners, two hides, a digital thermometer (which I have on the cool side of the cage as a back up--it only cost $5) and a fake branch made of rubber. I already had the aquarium and the top. I know it can be done for much cheaper (in my case, it would've been less than $100 with a cheaper themostat), but this didn't seem like too much to spend considering the low cost of keeping a snake. I get my F/T mice at Pet Smart (Petco, I believe, also has them). The cost something like $1.50 apiece, and he takes one a week. That's less than chicken feed--call it snake feed.

Hope this helps. Sorry for prattling on for so long, but I LOVE my snake--I could go on for hours. He's the ideal pet. Well-mannered, clean, doesn't smell (so long as you get the urate and poop out of the cage pronto--that stuff STINKS), doesn't mind being handled, fun to watch television with (he just slithers around on top of me and the couch) or work at the computer with him wrapped around the neck. Yeah, I probably handle him too much, but he seems happy. So far, so good.

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Originally Posted by JLC

Just to answer some of your questions about dry ice....I've never worked with it myself, so I don't know how long it lasts or how to keep it from disappearing....but I can ease your fears about the gas it gives off. CO2 is just part of the air we breathe. You create CO2 every time you exhale. It's not dangerous in the least. Dry ice is just frozen CO2....and so if you put it in a small container, it floods the container with CO2 and pushes out all the oxygen. It's not the CO2 that kills the rodent, it's the sudden lack of oxygen.


That's my understanding of it. I may be a bit off on the mechanics, but I know for sure the gas thats released is harmless. :)

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Ooooh..! You're right, I hadn't thought about it like that... You are very correct and that helps me out a lot. I'm just really, really loath to feeding live--not that I have hangups about how nice it is for the mouse, but because 1) I don't wanna get attatched to the little fuzzballs and 2) I'm not sure I can handle the idea of hearing a rat screaming it's death throes. The dry ice sounds easy, safe, and human for the rats, so I think that may just be the way I go--I'm still leery about the f/t exploding horror stories, and all..

Though I do have another question about feeding: In personal experiences, how long do snakes usually stay on one size of feeder? And do most pet stores have(or will sell, more accurately)the really little ones, like pinkies and hoppers? I've also read of people feeding their snakes two mice/rats at once...just how, exactly, do you know little Julius Squeezer is hungry for another? This is something I'm really thinking about because people talk about how their snakes go on hunger strikes--I mean, sure, if he doesn't eat, he doesn't eat...so what do you guys do, thaw out two, feed one, offer another? I guess I'm so used to fish(and my sproggie) that will eat regardless of whether or not their hungry--snakes will stop when they're full, right?

Oh! Jo(I think that's your name!), you posted pics of one of your slitherbaby's inclosures. What size is it? I don't want to get something too big that it's going to overwhelm the little guy, you know?

And another thing! Someone answered my question about applying the UTH directly to the bottom of the steralite/rubbermade/whathaveyou, but what is safe to set the UTH itself on--as I've mentioned before, I've got a rather large metal trunk that I'm thinking of using...but wouldn't putting the UTH there heat up the metal, and thus up the tempature? I'm sorely tempted to slid the enclosure into my desk--it has several nicely sized cubby holes and removable shelves; I could really easily set it up here, because I know it's not going anywhere anytime soon, and there is a plugin nearby for a power strip. The desk, itself, is your typical Wal-Mart special(though it's really big), made of that sortakinda wood stuff...would that be safe and insulated enough to put the UTH on? And if not, what's the verdict on the trunk?

And I think my biggest question is this---how manditory is a thermostat going to be for me? Can I safely and accurately keep a tempature constant inside of an enclosure without one? And if not, if I have to get a thermostat, how exactly do they work? I mean, I know the basics--heat goes too low or too high and the thermostat turns device on or off accordingly--but will I need two, one for cool and one for hot side? Do I plug the UTH into the thermostat? How does that work?

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Originally Posted by LSama

Though I do have another question about feeding: In personal experiences, how long do snakes usually stay on one size of feeder? And do most pet stores have(or will sell, more accurately)the really little ones, like pinkies and hoppers? I've also read of people feeding their snakes two mice/rats at once...just how, exactly, do you know little Julius Squeezer is hungry for another? This is something I'm really thinking about because people talk about how their snakes go on hunger strikes--I mean, sure, if he doesn't eat, he doesn't eat...so what do you guys do, thaw out two, feed one, offer another? I guess I'm so used to fish(and my sproggie) that will eat regardless of whether or not their hungry--snakes will stop when they're full, right?

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I wuld only feed one at a time. Make sure the prey is no bigger around than the fattest part around on your snake.

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Oh! Jo(I think that's your name!), you posted pics of one of your slitherbaby's inclosures. What size is it? I don't want to get something too big that it's going to overwhelm the little guy, you know?

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I'm not Jo, lol, but I put my two babies (seperate of course) in their own 12 qt. It works for me, but I'm going to have to buy a new one soon.

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And another thing! Someone answered my question about applying the UTH directly to the bottom of the steralite/rubbermade/whathaveyou, but what is safe to set the UTH itself on--as I've mentioned before, I've got a rather large metal trunk that I'm thinking of using...but wouldn't putting the UTH there heat up the metal, and thus up the tempature? I'm sorely tempted to slid the enclosure into my desk--it has several nicely sized cubby holes and removable shelves; I could really easily set it up here, because I know it's not going anywhere anytime soon, and there is a plugin nearby for a power strip. The desk, itself, is your typical Wal-Mart special(though it's really big), made of that sortakinda wood stuff...would that be safe and insulated enough to put the UTH on? And if not, what's the verdict on the trunk?

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As long as you have a thermostat or dimmer, you should be ok.

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And I think my biggest question is this---how manditory is a thermostat going to be for me? Can I safely and accurately keep a tempature constant inside of an enclosure without one? And if not, if I have to get a thermostat, how exactly do they work? I mean, I know the basics--heat goes too low or too high and the thermostat turns device on or off accordingly--but will I need two, one for cool and one for hot side? Do I plug the UTH into the thermostat? How does that work?

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If the room temps are keeping the cool side to 80-84, only get one. You are still going to need one because heat pads can go ballistic and burn something down if too hot. A proportional thermostat, (correct me if I'm wrong) when set to a specific temperature, will crank up the heat pad to the specific temp. When it gets too high, the t-stat will crank it down to the specific temp. These are the best out of the two. On/Offs they turn off when it gets too high, turns on when it is low. Lol. Whatever kind of T-stat you get, you need to use the probe and put it in the tub/tank.

I just gotta say...Mikey is SUCH a little cutey!!!! :blowkiss:

The size of that specific tub is 22 x 14 x 6.5. I think it's a 21 qt Sterlite. Unfortunately I am the worst person for pulling off the tag that gives all this information from a tub w/o writing it down first LOL. It's plenty big enough for an 06 hatched BP, you can easily go even smaller. This size will house the snake that lives in it for many months to come.

As far as prey size you can expect that most BP's will start on pink or fuzzy sized rats or hopper or small adult mice pretty quickly. Prey shouldn't exceed the girth of the snake compared to the biggest girth of the rodent (usually it's butt/hips area). Until you are used to what your snake eats as far as sizes, etc. and since you are only feeding the one snake probably just buying f/t from PetCo or something like that would work best. You can expect to pay around a dollar or so per frozen prey item (call around to your local pet stores for pricing and availability of various sizes of mice and rats). If you pay say $1.25 for a fuzzy rat and it eats one per week then all you are looking at for monthly food costs is $5.00 plus your gas to run to the pet store once monthly. Pretty reasonable for any pet. Once you are used to what the snake eats then a bulk order from a rodent supplier might be worth it as you can order in a few sizes to make up a minimum order (you can order under 100 rodents usually but you pay less per item if you buy 100 or more at one time plus you safe on shipping).

As far as the T-stat you don't have to go for the top line Helix. There's lots of options for a nice t-stat plus some flexwatt to heat the tub for various prices. Here's a link. You can even have them pre-wire the flexwatt for no extra cost, so it's basically "plug and play". If you have any questions about what you need heating wise I'd say give them a quick call or email. Rich is a great guy.

http://www.reptilebasics.com/store/home.php?cat=250

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

The size of that specific tub is 22 x 14 x 6.5. I think it's a 21 qt Sterlite. Unfortunately I am the worst person for pulling off the tag that gives all this information from a tub w/o writing it down first LOL. It's plenty big enough for an 06 hatched BP, you can easily go even smaller. This size will house the snake that lives in it for many months to come.

As far as prey size you can expect that most BP's will start on pink or fuzzy sized rats or hopper or small adult mice pretty quickly. Prey shouldn't exceed the girth of the snake compared to the biggest girth of the rodent (usually it's butt/hips area). Until you are used to what your snake eats as far as sizes, etc. and since you are only feeding the one snake probably just buying f/t from PetCo or something like that would work best. You can expect to pay around a dollar or so per frozen prey item (call around to your local pet stores for pricing and availability of various sizes of mice and rats). If you pay say $1.25 for a fuzzy rat and it eats one per week then all you are looking at for monthly food costs is $5.00 plus your gas to run to the pet store once monthly. Pretty reasonable for any pet. Once you are used to what the snake eats then a bulk order from a rodent supplier might be worth it as you can order in a few sizes to make up a minimum order (you can order under 100 rodents usually but you pay less per item if you buy 100 or more at one time plus you safe on shipping).

As far as the T-stat you don't have to go for the top line Helix. There's lots of options for a nice t-stat plus some flexwatt to heat the tub for various prices. Here's a link. You can even have them pre-wire the flexwatt for no extra cost, so it's basically "plug and play". If you have any questions about what you need heating wise I'd say give them a quick call or email. Rich is a great guy.

http://www.reptilebasics.com/store/home.php?cat=250

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Great advice Jo! Rich is a super guy and I wouldn't hesitate to buy from him (as I have in the past and will in the future!)