caramel albino

Sorry, I'm not following you on the wild caught adult part.

True, I would love to see some tests to start to prove or disprove this theory. The original test it was based on was a way to explain Corey Woods' production of only albinos from a pair of animals purchased as het caramels. If no one else gets around to breeding homozygous albino to homozygous caramel AND posting the results for the definitive test in the next couple of decades I'll probably be able to do it.

You're stating on the odds of the Imported (not WC, my bad) to carry the genetics for three genes...I'm just saying regardless its all a crapshoot, there isn't a definitive way to know the odds of a snakes genetic makeup because you don't know until its bred, and its not all that common to find another snake with the exact same genetic makeup.

I just think its time to give up your theories and try to figure things out for yourself if you really want to know then breed a homozygous albino to a homozygous caramel. Until then stop with your theories, and if you want factual information talk to the ones who have done some breeding...such as NERD.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Good questions.

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Thank you.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

If each gene where randomly distributed in the wild at 1 in 100

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Isn't this an extremely elementary view of population genetics? Couldn't a more localized cluster of a specific gene or two greatly increase this frequency and make the numbers that your "allele theory" are based on worthless? Have you taken any time to study or inquire about or even consider any locality specific information that may or may not be related to the wild collection of homozygous albino or homozygous caramel albino animals?

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Maybe the caramel gene comes from an isolated breeding population where the albino gene is unusually rare so the chances of a paring of the two alleles in the wild is low compared to the chance of a homozygous for either allele by it’s self.

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Wouldn't that invalidate your idea above that each gene is randomly distributed in the wild at 1 in 100 and just lend credit to the belief that a homozygous caramel was imported carrying a copy of the albino gene from an isolated breeding population where the albino gene is unusually common?

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Still, you do have a point

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Yeah, I know.

-adam

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Should I not be factoring in the offspring production part of the odds?

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Isn't this part of "your" theory? Are you asking me or talking to yourself out loud? Wouldn't you have your own numbers "dialed in" before discussing a theory in a public forum?

I know you're usually more precise than this?? What gives buddy? :confuzd:

-adam

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I just think its time to give up your theories and try to figure things out for yourself if you really want to know then breed a homozygous albino to a homozygous caramel. Until then stop with your theories, and if you want factual information talk to the ones who have done some breeding...such as NERD.

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I don't see the lines between factual information and theory and "empty theory" as being so cut and dry. Which is the explanation that the imported caramel was homozygous caramel and het albino? I would argue that it was just the most likely and easy to understand THEORY given the initial information available (it looked like a caramel but produced albinos with some of its offspring). At some point later information became available that a pair of its offspring may only be het for albino. That new information required a new explanation theory and skewed the probability away from the original theory. I still don't know that anyone has done the homozygous caramel X homozygous albino breeding so what gives others more right to espouse the UNTESTED THEORY that they are unrelated genes than me to point out that it's still possible they are alleles?

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Isn't this an extremely elementary view of population genetics? Couldn't a more localized cluster of a specific gene or two greatly increase this frequency and make the numbers that your "allele theory" are based on worthless? Have you taken any time to study or inquire about or even consider any locality specific information that may or may not be related to the wild collection of homozygous albino or homozygous caramel albino animals?

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It is a simplified view of population genetics. But as pointed out, whatever the numbers really are they wash out because they are in both theories. What it really comes down to is how likely is it for a random wild animal (that just happens to be homozygous for an independent caramel gene) to be het albino vs. how likely is it that the two color mutations are alleles.

You have pointed out in separate threads that morph locality information is a closely guarded trade secret held by the collectors.

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Wouldn't that invalidate your idea above that each gene is randomly distributed in the wild at 1 in 100 and just lend credit to the belief that a homozygous caramel was imported carrying a copy of the albino gene from an isolated breeding population where the albino gene is unusually common?

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But if there is a locality where both caramel and albino are concentrated then shouldn't other caramel lines have produced albinos too?

As far as the statistics, I'm asking anyone who understands them to present an argument as to why the clutch ratios should or should not be multiplied by the pairing ratios.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

You have pointed out in separate threads that morph locality information is a closely guarded trade secret held by the collectors.

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Yup ... but not "impossible" to find. You should try talking to some of the American and European ball python breeders that have been over there ... I think you'd probably re-think some of your "theories". ;)

-adam

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

But if there is a locality where both caramel and albino are concentrated then shouldn't other caramel lines have produced albinos too?

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Not if one of the caramels imported was collected in an area known to have a heavy concentration of albinos .... and the others were collected in a completely different country. :sweeet:

-adam