Complementation of Axanthic Lines?

Oh, crap, back to the whole Axanthic discussion though...
There's a theory that Joliff and VPI lines aren't compatable because the Joliff line is more like a hypoxanthic (extremely low amounts of yellow) than axanthic (absence of yellow). They're two different genes altogether so of course they wouldn't be compatable. It's like a hypomelanistic (Ghost) being bred to an amelanistic (Albino). You're going to get normal looking snakes and are heterozygous for both genes (double hets).

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

RDR’s breeding pages have lots and lots of data so lots of places I could have gotten something wrong between there and here but here is what I came up with for clutches producing the original Lesser line Platy:

2003 Clutch 44 Lesser X Normal Sibling
2003 Clutch 51 Lesser X Normal Sibling
2004 Clutch 8 Platy X Lesser
2005 Clutch 5 Platy X Lesser
2005 Clutch 42 Platy X Normal Sibling
2005 Clutch 71 Platy X Normal Sibling

And here are the two very important productions of Butter line Platy.

2005 Clutch 16 Butter X Normal Sibling*
2005 Clutch 17 Butter X Normal Sibling

*This normal sibling could be from a butter and not from Platy as there where two possible fathers but I think it’s likely from Platy given it produce Platy offspring.

Other than the possible exception from 2005 clutch 16 noted above the “Normal Siblings” are normal looking offspring of a lesser line Platy – i.e. the ones that didn’t get the lesser mutated version of the gene.

When you look at just the lesser line results you’ll notice that all Platy production involves inbreeding decedents of the original Platy Daddy so the platy effect certainly could be a recessive mutation on top of lesser. However, you can also note the absence of platy from any lesser X lesser clutch (there have only been a couple such crosses reported). Hopefully there will be some more data from 2006 to start to build a case for this not being just due to a small sample size.

The big thing to note though is the Butter Platy from crossing the two lines (i.e. no inbreeding that we know of). Again, there haven’t been a ton of inbreedings in the Butter line to be sure it doesn’t just happen to have the same dilute gene as the lesser line and isn’t capable of making Butter Platy all by it’s self.

However, all of these results are consistent with a single dilute gene from a “Normal Sibling” or a Platy causing the Platy version when added to Lesser or Butter gene from the other parent. This isn’t the same as proving the single dilute gene theory, it’s just a lack so far of disproof. If all it takes is one dilute gene to turn a Lesser into a Platy then the lack of an example of a Platy passing both of these genes to the same offspring (i.e. no Platy from Platy X Normal) tends to indicate the Lesser and dilute genes are on the same chromosome. The big question then is if they are different versions of the same gene (alleles) or just neighbors.

So, if all of these different white snake related mutations are alleles then the notation might go something like this:

Wl = the lesser version (wish I could think of something other than a little L since it looks like the number 1)
Wp = the Phantom version
Wm = the Mojave version
wd = The dilute version
w = The normal version (or would it be w’ ?)
Wb = Butter version
Wv = Vin Russo version

Since there are more than just the normal and one mutant version we need two letters for each version of the gene. If I had an easy way to do it the 2nd letter should be lower case to avoid confusion that these are noting gene pairs (i.e. Wb isn’t a “W” gene plus a “b” gene, it’s the “b” version of the “W” gene). I’m starting each with the same “w” for white to remind that they are all the same gene (in this yet unproved theory) and not different genes like say albino and striped where you might use A and S. I’m using upper case for the dominant in relation to normal versions and lower case for dilute which doesn’t appear to do anything by it’s self with normal or even when homozygous.

If these all do turn out to be different versions of the same gene then no one animal can have more than two versions total including the normal version and of course can only pass one of those versions on to each offspring.

Platy Daddy (Wl wd) would give the Wl version to all his lesser offspring and the wd (dilute) version to all his Normal Sibling offspring. The offspring of Normal Sibling X Normal Sibling (wd w X wd w) would be possible het dilutes (wd w) or even possible homozygous dilute (wd wd) but the only for sure het dilute would be the normal offspring of a platy and the platy it’s self. Eventually a homozygous dilute (wd wd) may be identified through breeding trials (like if it produces a large number of 100% platy (Wl wd) when bred to a lesser leucistic (Wl Wl) and then it’s offspring with a normal would be know to be het dilute (wd w).

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I bet that took some time to put together.

-adam

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If you don't know about Ebony Chinchillas... it's an ACCUMULATIVE GENE... meaning that the more you breed the ebony gene to ebonys, the darker the offspring can get.

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I don't understand the genetics behind how such a thing would work but I've also heard of it with yellow canaries. I did check a little on the net and from http://treasuredpets.netfirms.com/chingene.htm it sounds to me like ebony is what we would call co-dominant in that the homzoygous ebonys are darker than the heterozygous ones. Interesting that they have also identified two homozygous lethal genes per that page (black velvet and white).

Yup. Kind of like the homozygous lethal gene for dwarf rabbits. The Heterozygous form is the dwarf and the homozygous form is what they call a "peanut". It's either stillborn or dies within a very short period of time.
The Ebony gene in Chinchillas is more than just co-dominant. Like, you can breed a heterozygous ebony to a heterozygous ebony and get a 25% chance of a "homozygous ebony", however you can also breed a homozygous ebony to another homozygous ebony and get an even darker ebony. It's like a double co-dominant gene. Nobody really gets it though.
My wife breeds chinchillas http://www.TheChinchillaVilla.com and has a pretty good genetics page about that kind of stuff.