Beginning Hots

First oiff i know nothing about hots aside from the fact that they bite and you die lol. But why not start with a false water cobra they are midly venomous and can be quite mean they get big to so you would get hook practice too. But still any true hot you start with will be dangerous. Its like being able to flip on a trampoline and then trying you first flip over solid ground you could fall and really get hurt. Bad analogy but whatever.

I know this thread is a bit old but every hot keeper I have talked with said to start with the non venomous snake closest in behavior and size to the hot you want to get into. For example, a tiger rat snake would make a great training species if you wanted to work with mambas or large cobras since they are agile, quick to bite if warnings are ignored and usually pretty flighty. An untamed blood would make a great training species for a large heavy bodied species such as some of the bitis species like gaboons and puff adders. Of course they are not going to be the same to work with but they will give you the idea.

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

I know this thread is a bit old but every hot keeper I have talked with said to start with the non venomous snake closest in behavior and size to the hot you want to get into. For example, a tiger rat snake would make a great training species if you wanted to work with mambas or large cobras since they are agile, quick to bite if warnings are ignored and usually pretty flighty. An untamed blood would make a great training species for a large heavy bodied species such as some of the bitis species like gaboons and puff adders. Of course they are not going to be the same to work with but they will give you the idea.

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also coachwips are great for non hot practice. if you can last a year without getting but by a coachwip you are ready

Okay,

I must say a few things on the subject.

First off, there is no way to be completely ready for hots......Either you are a hot keeper or you are not. There is no gray area here. I know seasoned hot keepers that have been doing it for years and years and still have the "oh crap" situation happen from time to time. Remember getting bit is not the only bad thing that can happen when you are housing venomous animals in captivity. You must acquire the correct housing and tools to deal with them.

Secondly, you MUST go and spend much time at a hot keepers facility to get the do's and dont's covered and see someone with experience handle these animals. Reading and online research is great, however it will not get you to the point of keeping.

I am a hot keeper.........I wouldn't recommend anyone getting into it.

There are plenty of very aggressive, fast moving, non hot snakes to get some much needed "practice" on. As stated above coachwhips are a good one as well as w/c adult black ratsnakes. However these snakes are still nothing like a hot snake. Just something to practice with to get used to the tools needed. IE hooks, tongs, so on. Venomous animals react very differently from non-venomous animals, so any "practice" is more for tool training than anything else.

Hopefully anyone getting into hots will take the time needed to prepare and give it some serious thought before doing so.


Take care and God Bless!

I always go back the the wisdom of Carl Kauffeld on this subject.

He starts out his chapter on hots in "Keeper and the Kept" with basicly that you would be best advised not to. (this was in the 50s by the way) He then at once says but some of you will anyway so you might as well know how to do it right.

The best advice he gives it that you can go as far as to capture a hot in the field and care for it for years keeping it in perfect health and never actually phyically touch it.

Carl felt and I also believe you can do all you need with most snakes with hooks, clamps and other tools. One he used to catch snakes in the field with was a modified hook that would hold a capture bag open. He would simply use a hook to back the snake into it. He successfully used this to be the first person to ever assemble an entire collection of every rattle snake in North America.

The only time he was ever bit in decades of handling venomous snakes was when he broke his own rule and tried to remove some eye caps from an Indian cobra and got a fang in the finger.

He is one of my true heros and while he has gone on to field herping in the sky I recommend that "Snakes and Snake Hunting" and "Keeper and the Kept" be on every herpers bookshelf.

I don't keep hots but I have been dealing with them since I was 11 (with supervision), I have been tagged one time and it was not due to handling, simply steped on the back of a copperhead and took it right in the back of the calf.

Let me advise you on copperheads as one who has been there and done that. No they are not likely to kill you but yes a bite sucks major a$$ in a big way. The pain sucks and time in the Hospital blows worse! The damage to tissue is also impressive. Even with copperheads respect the heck out of them.

I limit my handling to field herping and "saving hots" by removing them from residential areas. I have to many animals and kids in my home to take the risk but have no issue with anyone doing it. Some day I may keep a pair of copperheads just because I adore them but it will be after we move to my semi retirement place up in Arkansas.

I also think that what you need to know and do to keep hots safely is way over blown by uninformed. Like I said you DON'T need to EVER TOUCH THEM. The poster mentioning the cage with a devider is a great idea. I have another one I thought of making one day. Why not build a hide box that can be closed and locked with a hook. Then you could wait till the snake is in the box and lock it in with a hook. No danger of being bit that way too.

The other good part is that copper heads and rattlers are both quite easy to handle with a hook, a lot easier then a lot of the cobras and the like. There are pretty well willing to be picked up with a hook and moved around at least once they get some size on them.

Other posters are right though you NEED hands on mentoring. Nothing replaces that. Look for a mentor that trys to avoid touching the snakes not one who like to do Steve Irwin impersonations! Last year I handled 27 rattle snakes and about a dozen copperheads and 2 corals, I never touched a one. There is a lot of wisdom there.

The other side is the responsibility! The room must as others have said be clutter free and totaly locked up no escape possible. You have to realize if your corn or king get out that a cat is likely to kill the snake or some jerk kill it with a hoe and it poses no danger to anyone. If a rattler gets out it could kill a person or pet and you will have to live with it. For the rest of us you will do damage to our hobby and to some of us to our incomes with the bad press.

That said if you want to do it, there is nothing wrong, learn the law, learn technique and do it right. We need hot keepers out there, just be above all patient and take it slow and under some quality mentorship,

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Let me advise you on copperheads as one who has been there and done that. No they are not likely to kill you but yes a bite sucks major a$ in a big way. The pain sucks and time in the Hospital blows worse! The damage to tissue is also impressive. Even with copperheads respect the heck out of them.

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Excellent points.
A lot of people seem to discount the bite of a copperhead as nothing. Let me tell you, a bite WILL cost you a fortune in medical bills (insurance will not pay it) and they can cause severe tissue damage.
Granted they are one of the less potent hots but they are HOTS and should always be treated with the same level of respect as any other hot snake.
I have dealt with various hots and the one that ended up tagging me was the copperhead.

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There are plenty of very aggressive, fast moving, non hot snakes to get some much needed "practice" on. As stated above coachwhips are a good one as well as w/c adult black ratsnakes. However these snakes are still nothing like a hot snake. Just something to practice with to get used to the tools needed. IE hooks, tongs, so on. Venomous animals react very differently from non-venomous animals, so any "practice" is more for tool training than anything else.

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Good point. Using a nonvenemous animal only gets you used to using hooks, tongs, restraining tubes, etc.
They do nothing to prepare you for what it is really like when you have a hot snake in front of you.
Knowing the animal could kill you heightens your senses. You just do not get the same "feeling" working with nonvenemous as you do with the real thing.

Anyone interested in hots needs to find someone to train them properly. Do not attempt to self train.

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Originally Posted by SPJ

Excellent points.
A lot of people seem to discount the bite of a copperhead as nothing. Let me tell you, a bite WILL cost you a fortune in medical bills (insurance will not pay it) and they can cause severe tissue damage.
Granted they are one of the less potent hots but they are HOTS and should always be treated with the same level of respect as any other hot snake.
I have dealt with various hots and the one that ended up tagging me was the copperhead.

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About the only correction I have here (it is only a part correction) is the insurance. That works this way.

If like me you get bit with out doing somthing dumb like handling the snake as a pet. And do something even dumber like step over a blow down onto the back of a snake and get what they call a "legitmate bite" insurance THANK GOD does cover the bills. Which were massive. :mad:

If you keep hots though odds are your medical will as SPJ says will not cover it and your life can be changed for the worse beyound just the bite. 20-40K is not streatch for the bill you might get.

I do THINK there is insurance you can buy as a lisenced hot keeper to cover yourself. I think it is expensive but probally worth the cost if you are keeping those critters. If nothing else you should "self insure" your life by at least keeping the correct antivenom on hand.

I just wonder what happens when you show up like at the Dallas hospital and say, "I got bit by a mamba, or rino viper or some other exotic species that no doc at that hospital has any experience with. Or like what the heck when you say my 50% Gaboon and 50% Rino viper (gambino) tagged me, what the hell does the doc at Parkland in Dallas do then? :taz:

At least when I got tagged by a copperhead in PA they were like, don't worry we know what to do for you. I think it it had been an exotic in rural PA or Big City Texas it may have been a different story,

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Originally Posted by SPJ

Good point. Using a nonvenemous animal only gets you used to using hooks, tongs, restraining tubes, etc.
They do nothing to prepare you for what it is really like when you have a hot snake in front of you.
Knowing the animal could kill you heightens your senses. You just do not get the same "feeling" working with nonvenemous as you do with the real thing.

Anyone interested in hots needs to find someone to train them properly. Do not attempt to self train.

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This is dead on! When you deal with say a mean old black racer, (which is a lot like a mean cobra or mamba) it still is not the same. You know getting tagged is a non issue. Once you have been bit a time or three you know it won't even hurt much.

Your heart rate does not go up, you don't get sick in your gut when it gets close, you don't get the shakes. It is good practice, sure but it is not the same.

Good points SPJ! It is a great way to learn the tools but we should be clear about the psycological differences between practice and an animal that really can disfigure or kill you,

That said if you want practice for a Copperhead, Cottonmouth or Rattler a mean diamond back water snake is pretty damn similar to all of them and honeslty more likely to nail you, :sabduel:

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Originally Posted by jjspirko

That said if you want practice for a Copperhead, Cottonmouth or Rattler a mean diamond back water snake is pretty damn similar to all of them and honeslty more likely to nail you, :sabduel:

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Jack, you got that right. I snagged this little beauty out of my goldfish pond last year. He was only about 10 inches, but probably the meanest snake I have ever put my hands on.
http://www.baileyreptiles.com/images...y/dbwaterl.jpg
p.s. This is one of the greatest thread I have encountered on this site. As a non-hot keeper, I have truly enjoyed all of the knowledge that has come out of this thread.