Death Wish or learning opportunity

Not to be a smartass but theres also plenty people who drive for 30-50 years and cant drive worth a crap compaired to someone whos been doing it for 1-10 years

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Spencer!
0.2 Hep Albino BP
2.2 Rats

Whatis a Hep Albino?

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lol.. it's a typo. :D Thank you I'll fix that.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Get my point?

-adam

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I'm not entirely sure, but this is my take.

You are a reputable "snakester". You love your pythons, and out of that love you developed into a breeder. Because you love your snakes, you are a good breeder that people are likely to take seriously. If you had no interest in the snakes, you would not likely be a good breeder, nor a "snakester" for that matter.

If I, on the otherhand, was simply setting out to accumulate snakes for the sake of having more "toys" than the next guy, I would be less likely to give them quality care, and I wouldn't be doing myself or the snakes any favours.

In the end, the numbers aren't the bottom line, the passion is. It is because of this passion that I was considering these less than good snakes. The money was not the issue. If I simply wanted more toys, I wouldn't be asking questions, I'd be bragging about how well I was doing.

I *have* driven millions of miles in my life. I drive because I love it. I love driving in the rain, at night, in the mountains, on snow or on ice. I've watched a father hold a dying child in his arms, as another child lay dead beside him, while still one more was pinned in an upside down car screaming. I saw the aftermath of what happened to my cousins as their life was torn apart because the mom was killed in a car accident. I've seen trucks roll and I've administered to old ladies as they lay covered in their own blood waiting for the ambulance to come. The sad thing in all the cases I mentioned above was that the drivers all "thought" they knew what they were doing, and so believing, they blinded themselves to the dangers that lay ahead.

Why is this relevant? Through my experience I have learned never to take for granted what know, and never assume I have things under control. This applies to my snakes as it does to my diving, driving, family relations, etc.

Am I a better snake keeper than you Adam? Heavens no, but it does no justice to snakes to discourage someone from learning how to be a better "snakester" by telling them time is the only way they can learn.

My intent is not to put anyone in their place, but in truth Adam, because of your reputation, many put you on a pedestal. With the recognition comes the responsibility to educate and encourage, and I look forward to learning much from you as I continue in this hobby.

I was just curious as to the number of snakes you were talking about taking in?

Without knowing that, may I suggest that you sit yourself down at the kitchen table and do two things...

First, write up a list of Pros and Cons in regards to the hypothetical situation of you having the responsability of "x" amount of snakes in varies degrees of health.

Second: Sit down somewhere where it is peaceful and there isn't anyone or anything to distract you. While you're there, think with your head instead of your heart.

I'm not trying to come across as someone who knows everything, nor am I trying to discourage anyone from opening their home to an animal in need. I'm going to go out on a limb ( as I am still relatively new to this forum an don't know everyone personally), but I believe everyone here is here for one thing and only one thing: mutual love of animals and specifically snakes in general weither it is the Royals, Kings, Bulls, Corns, Cobras, etc. With that in mind, I don't think that anyone here on the forum would deny an unfortunate animal a second chance, a lease on life as it were, if they knew without a second thought that they could provide a mistreated animal with a better enviroment and a better life.

I am, myself, an animal lover to the point that YES if it ever came to the point where I had to sacrefice feeding myself or my pet, I would be the one going without food. My heart breaks everytime that I read/watch a story about neglect in every form, which is the instigator for my very opinionated attitude that does tend to rub people the wrong way...But, back on track....

Say we're talking 1-5 snakes, now I don't see a problem with a single person who is devoted to these breath-taking reptiles having too much of strain taking adequete care of them on their own. But, anything over ten non-breeding animals, I believe that even the most super human of people need help from somewhere and someone.

If you do decide that this something that you wish to prusue, my advice would be to have a contingency plan(s) in place. Where are they all going to go if you get overwhelmed? Who is going to be there in case you decide that you need more then a few day vacation to feed them/take care of them? Then there's the money issue: how can you support them all and still take care of yourself/your household? On this subject, I'd advise that you breed your own feeders weither you feed live or dead/frozen. In my experience with my own pets and with friends both on and off the internet, this is the best way to go finacially. The feeders foods isn't really as expensive as say purchasing 300+ mice to feed these guys for say roughly 2-6 months (depending on the ages and amount of snakes you'll be dealing with).

Basic husbandry is an issue all in itself, but I see that others have already left good comments, so...

Though I do agree that the educatonal value balances nicely with the finacial side of things. But in the end, it depends entirely on the individual.

So, basically what I'm trying to say is while your heart might be in the right place, sometimes we have to listen to what our brain is saying no matter how hard it is to face the truth.

Perhaps, instead of nursing them all on your own, you should try and find other snake owners/lovers to help you: share the burden if you will.

Personally, if the stupid bylaws in my city were different, I'd offer my home to as many as I could take in this very instant. If you do decide to take these animals in, please let me know and as soon as I have found a place to settle into, I will be more then happy to take some of them in myself.

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Originally Posted by srozell

Am I a better snake keeper than you Adam? Heavens no, but it does no justice to snakes to discourage someone from learning how to be a better "snakester" by telling them time is the only way they can learn.

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Why do you have to turn it into someone being "better"? You asked for opinions and I gave mine. I never suggested that anyone was "better" than anyone else and I never tried to "discourage" anyone from doing anything. I merely gave my opinion.

Earlier in the post you said ....

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Originally Posted by srozell

I think the opportunity to learn first hand about snake ailments would be helpful.

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... as well as ...

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Originally Posted by srozell

In short, I am questioning whether the experience I will gain with the "free" snakes will add significant value to my ability to care for more expensive balls.

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My "point" (which was very obviously missed) was that taking in more snakes because you are passionate, if you can care for the properly is awesome, but if your motivation for taking in those snakes is only to get "experience" in order to "add signifcant value to your ability to care for more expensive balls" then you are a donkey.

If you were really passionate about taking in the "free" snakes, why come to a message board with your dilemma? If you REALLY wanted them, then you'd have them. Obviously there would be vet bills, overhead in caring for the animals, etc, but you were quite clear that those things aren't the issue for you as you work in a pet store, have plenty of time, blah blah blah.

My "point" was that if "more expensive balls" are your end goal and where your true passion lies (as was hinted by your own words), your money and time is best spent there. Let "the opportunity to learn first hand about snake ailments" present itself with animals that you are so truly passionate about that you don't have to ask for opinions on a message board as to whether or not you should get them … not with animals that you are only considering taking in because they might "add signifcant value to your ability to care for more expensive balls".

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Originally Posted by srozell

My intent is not to put anyone in their place, but in truth Adam, because of your reputation, many put you on a pedestal. With the recognition comes the responsibility to educate and encourage, and I look forward to learning much from you as I continue in this hobby.

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As for that statment, I have NO idea what you're talking about. I am just a guy with a nice collection of ball pythons that has taken me 10 years of hard work to put together ... my opinions are no more of less valid than anyone else’s. I like to think that I do a little bit to help out around here from time to time by using my experience to answer questions, but anyone that puts me on a "pedestal" is a donkey. I am no one special, and in any number of years, anyone on this message board could be right were I am.

And FWIW, I think I do a pretty darn tootin good job of educating and encouraging ... unfortunately, that education and encouragement doesn't always come out the way people "want" it to be … nothing I can do about that.

-adam

I apologize for getting oversensitive and misunderstanding your intentions.


Clearly I did miss your point.

And as far as being put on a pedestal goes, personally I believe your mug belongs on Mt. Rushmore, but baby steps first.. the last time I checked you hadn't posted your picture on these forums anywhere yet. :D

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Originally Posted by srozell

And as far as being put on a pedestal goes, personally I believe your mug belongs on Mt. Rushmore

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That ain't me at all ... I'm just a dork with a big mouth and a lot of opinions ... and EVERYONE knows what opinions are like ... mine stink just like everyone elses. :P

The real people that should be put up on the pedestal are the innovators like NERD, RDR, VPI, PKR, etc ... they are the pioneers that literally "created" this business from nothingness and wrote the play book for me to follow. ;)

-adam

spencer,

are these the snakes you were talking to me about today? wow, that's a whole lot of rescues and time and incredible effort not to mention $$ for vet bills.

i was looking for a thread of yours so i could pm you about the mice. it turns out i got 6 females in my order but they are all very young... too young to breed. a mouse needs to be closer to 6 weeks before being bred... and these ones all look to be about 3-4. so they won't really help you in your breeding process at this time anyway.

hopefully you'll get in some already pregnant ones in the next order and you can use those to feed your new snakes.

in light,
aleesha
ps now i'm going to read this whole thread... and see if these are the snakes you were talking to me about today.

spencer,

i really like what black zodiac had to say (page 3) - what are you going to do with all those snakes if you get ill or something comes up for you?

starting small... and getting your breeder/feeders going first would be the right way to do this. not getting the snakes and then trying to get feeders going to feed them all.

each individual snake equals one meal times total snakes per week! even at your discount volunteering at hidden reef, you'll be paying a LOT a week for pinkies - and have you figured out how many females you are going to need to birth enough mice for all those meals a week?

and once the snakes get larger and they begin eating a grown mouse... three weeks gestation and then 3 weeks of growing before they are ready to be eaten... equals 6 weeks. now remember you need bedding for the mice and food as well...

whew i'm getting tired just working this out in my head!

i'm concerned for you spencer... i don't want to see you get in over your head and i'm worried that you are.

can you at least start out with less and work your way up to more snakes?

hope you don't mind me sharing my thoughts,
aleesha

As far as it taking 6 weeks to raise up food sometimes, yes, but once that first 6 weeks has passed and you have enough food in all stages from 0-6 weeks then it just becomes turnaround time for your pregnant rodents as after weaning they continue to grow on their own as their restarts the reproduction cycle.