The ethos of breeders

But if someone who had a good trackrecord is caught doing something illegal and is punished by the law, is he/she not considered to have paid that debt to society? Would that be enough in the eyes of the buyer if that someone never commits another crime again?

I don't know... how could you ever prove that they would never do it again? They've already shown that they'd do it once... what's to stop them from going a second time?


Again, it all rests with the opinion of the customer, and what they see as wrong and immoral. The above is my opinion.

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Originally Posted by iceman25

But if someone who had a good trackrecord is caught doing something illegal and is punished by the law, is he/she not considered to have paid that debt to society? Would that be enough in the eyes of the buyer if that someone never commits another crime again?

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I think if the crime in question is maybe something like failing to pay income tax it would be a no brainer for some people, but if the crime was intentional physical harm against another person would it be so easy to decide?

But then again, what if that person that lied to the government about their taxes was selling possible hets? ... Lie to the government and potentially go to jail ... lie to a customer and how could they prove it? ... Maybe not so easy.

-adam

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

Again, it all rests with the opinion of the customer, and what they see as wrong and immoral. The above is my opinion.

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Well, lets get those opinions out here! ... Where does each person reading this thread draw the line?

-adam

Very interesting.

Of course finding "the line" demands one first stack offenses in some sort of moral heirarchy . . . keep posting I can surely milk a thesis out of this!


Cheating customers/mistreating animals would for me be the least offensive or greivous crimes to cause me to do this. (minimum offense??)


C'MON people pony up! You can keep it as objective as you like

If someone had a good track record and commited a "small" crime like sell illegal turtles and went to jail for it and did the time, then I would buy from them. I know people who have gone to jail for petty crimes and then changed their ways. I will not judge them and I will give them all the benefit of the doubt.

On the other hand, if someone commited murder and did fifty years and came out a changed person, I am not sure. I have never met anyone who has commited such attrocious a crime. I don't think I will be able to do business with such a person cause I would have misgivings about him/her. Then I would feel bad for having those misgivings :confused:

Ok, I think I'll take a stab at this one.

I think you have to have some amount of respect for the person you are dealing with. There are too many people that put everything out there, and still maintain a moral high ground. I would want my business to go to them. I would feel if I purchased from someone with the shady dealings that I was in some way validating it. :rolleyes: I've got my children who look very closely at everything I do, and I would never want them to think that I approved of any such behavior. Kids pick up on the smallest things. Taking the extra $10 that the grocery store clerk handed me by accident, just doesn't sit right. So yes, I'm an idiot and give it back. I have certain beliefs and I want to express those in every way possible to the kids, even if that means not doing business with people who may have made mistakes.

without trying to get personal here are some of my thoughts in the scenario of both the "reptile world" and "my little world"...


If a person does something "illegal" *knowingly*, and they are punished for it whats to say they wouldn't do it again? Do we forgive them even though they knew what they did was illegal? To me that is key...knowing that your doing something wrong or not and deciding to follow through with it.

I think certainly knowing what the "wrong doing" was would be a factor for me to an extent but if there is even a question than I would be quickly moving on to the next person. In the drugs scenario, murder, and crimes involving animals scenarios I would take my business elsewhere.

A person can have all the "good reputation" in the world but to me that doesn't justify a wrong doing even if its only one. How are we truely and honestly to know that one instance that was discovered was the only one? Did "so and so" tell you he just made a "mistake" and that in every other aspect the person is the "best of the best"? What are "so and so's" credentials?

I like the comparison of the children to our own actions:

If a breeder does something wrong and is "punished' but makes a full comeback or "works through others" what kind of impression do you think new breeders will get from that?

I will be the first to support those who don't make "mistakes". I won't necessarily hold an eternal grudge on someone but I wouldn't sit right to help someone get back into a position to where it might happen again -and there are no exceptions that say it would never happen again there would ALWAYS be that chance simply because of that first time.

Would it be ok if the person didn't get caught??

Crimes especially involving animals turn me away but maybe that's the "tree hugger" in me coming out as some of my co-workers have stated. There are plenty of people who haven't made mistakes out there that desserve just as much if not more admiration and respect as those who had a reputation and tarnished it.

good topic! i think this is very variable to each person. for me if it was a business (reptile) related crime, that would weigh heavy on my mind. because essentially this person committed a crime that is related to their animals and business. like a lawyer that gets caught, gets disbarred (sp.) or a doctor that does something wrong may lose his/her license. a no brainer for me would be any crimes involving children, there wouldn't even be a line.
if i ever met such a person i'd have to tell them what i think too. lol


vaughn

I base my buying off of morals. I am a big 'customer service' type person. I have been known to just leave stores/resturants if I was not being treated the way that I like. So if someone is doing something ....business related or not....that I dont like, I will not do business with them...it is just that simple:)


So what do all you law abiding citizens think of smaller or larger breeders that do not report some of their profits to the IRS? It happens alot, and it is a violation of the law.