Considering Breeding Feeders

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

females need to be 6 months old to breed and stop breeding around a year.

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Rats can breed as early as 6 weeks old, however it is not really good for them. Breeding can be done as early as 4 months, if she is a good size and not a tiny thing. And they do not stop breeding at around a year, in fact, when I was running my rattery, I had many females over that age breeding just fine. Rats tend to breed most of thier lives, which are short to begin with. They live up to 5 years supposedly, but I have never actually had one live past 3 or too much longer than that. Last week we lost one of our females, she was about 2 yrs old, she was fine prior to that, eating, etc.. then the next morning we found her dead. A necropsy was done,for my own informational purposes, and she actually had cancer inside her body that did not show outside. They are prone to cancers because of genetics and can be fine one day, and dead the next, without you ever knowing what happened to them unless you get a necropsy. Also, it is really a good idea to breed your female before they hit 9 months old, because thier pelvic cavity closes off enough after that age if they have never been bred, and later, if trying to birth babies, they get stuck.

oh thanks jeanne! someone on this site told me i couldn't breed them so early... as i'm growing my girls to breed.

so, you feel it's safe for me to introduce them to their 'special' friend... ricky?

as far as the pine shavings... i understand you keeping the rats you are growing to feed on pine... but what about the breeders? so adam, are you saying the breeders were kept on pine as well? *curious*

just a quick disclaimer here... i'm totally new to rats. i had two males years ago but with old age...i remember nothing LOL - so i'm just sharing the stuff i've been told or read so far... and honestly, people with rats which are healthy and who know their stuff... is much better than any advice i may give.

I keep all of my breeder rats on pine and they give me big healthy litters. They are thriving. :)

i am sitting here very confused. not to start an argument or anything but... i read this forum and see that the posters here (esp the ones who've been around for a long time) really REALLY care about their pets... and then i read in this thread where people are saying pine is okay for their rats... i find this to be very confusing.

here's an article about pine and cedar shavings...

http://www.ratfanclub.org/litters.html

specifically it states: "Several people have claimed that their pet rodents have always been kept on pine or cedar with no adverse effects. However, animals with elevated liver enzymes do not show any symptoms, and unless these animals received full autopsies at death with no sign of enlarged livers or liver disfunction, respiratory infection, or altered immune system, how can they claim that the pine or cedar did not affect them?"

so perhaps i'm out of line here, and i apologize if i offend anyone... but aren't we responsible for these little rats and mice? and even if they are for food... shouldn't we give them the best life possible? (esp the breeders who aren't going to put down early in their lives)

*steps off soapbox*

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

i am sitting here very confused. not to start an argument or anything but... i read this forum and see that the posters here (esp the ones who've been around for a long time) really REALLY care about their pets... and then i read in this thread where people are saying pine is okay for their rats... i find this to be very confusing.

here's an article about pine and cedar shavings...

http://www.ratfanclub.org/litters.html

specifically it states: "Several people have claimed that their pet rodents have always been kept on pine or cedar with no adverse effects. However, animals with elevated liver enzymes do not show any symptoms, and unless these animals received full autopsies at death with no sign of enlarged livers or liver disfunction, respiratory infection, or altered immune system, how can they claim that the pine or cedar did not affect them?"

so perhaps i'm out of line here, and i apologize if i offend anyone... but aren't we responsible for these little rats and mice? and even if they are for food... shouldn't we give them the best life possible? (esp the breeders who aren't going to put down early in their lives)

*steps off soapbox*

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This has been a debate for many years, I have kept rats and mice on pine in the past, and did have problems due to it with SOME of my rats and mice, when switched over to something like care fresh or yesterdays news, it cleared up. I have had plenty of rodents not have any issues with it also. So really, in this situation, it is a matter of your personal preference, and observing your rodents also to see if there is any issues cropping up to allow you to make a change. I currently do not use pine and have not for many years with any rodents I have kept, be it pet or feeder. But thats just me leaving no room for any kind of problems that MAY crop up.

Cedar is a definate no no.

But I use pine. I think pine depends alot on the quality of product that you get. The pine that I purchase is larger pieces with little dust. My mice show no issues with the pine that I get. However, I believe that if they were kept on a really dusty pine material....or any material for that fact.....it would not be healthy.

Perhaps, the pine might cause problems over an extended period of time(although I have not noticed any problems with my breeders).......but the majority of my mice are never really exposed to the pine for longer than 5 weeks so I really can't offer input on that ;)

hi daniel,

not according to the article... it's not the dust, it's the toxins IN the softwood shavings and from what i've read... cedar and pine are equally toxic.

jeanne,

thanks for your input :)

NP Aleesha! We are all here to share ideas and thoughts you know.. LOL

What is your source of information on that? I love a good read.

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

here's an article about pine and cedar shavings...

http://www.ratfanclub.org/litters.html

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