Ethics question in relationship to breeding.

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Originally Posted by zina10

Interesting !!!!

Ethically, I would have NO problem gelding a snake. But has it ever been done? I'm sure it "can" be done. Smaller animals get gelded. For many reasons. Since retics can get quite combative it may not be a bad idea at all. I've seen the wounds they leave, slicing like razors through tendons, veins and even arteries.

Off to google ;)

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They can be spayed (so I assume that males can also be neutered). Years ago I had a female rat snake that had an ectopic 'pregnancy' (eggs outside of where they
belonged & unable to pass them normally) and that went just fine...but she was an excellent vet experienced with exotics (snakes!).

Interesting question and I’ve enjoyed reading the answers. I picked ‘other’ for a couple of reasons. First, to answer your intended question about quality of life, and second to share my experience with breeding boas and corns.

Quality of life I think would depend on the species and the amount of drive demonstrated. You would have to determine if allowing to breed would really settle the animal, and if so, is it something you would potentially allow annually to keep temperment mild. As mentioned by others, there is the strain on the female and the likelihood of complications. I’ve never kept a species that did damage to itself from a mating drive. If I truly believed it would better the life of the adult to allow breeding, then I can see the argument to allow breeding and freeze the resulting eggs. That said, I would not breed a live bearing animal in the same situation, the difference between unformed egg and fully formed live young is distinct for me.

Second, I’ve bred redtail boas, Cuban boas, and corn snakes. Part of it at first was I wanted the experience and part was I had some really beautiful redtail boas. I had 18 perfect healthy babies in the first litter, and a little less than that with a couple of slugs in the second litter. The Cubans were unusual and have small litters (3 healthy babies, no slugs), to this day I regret selling them even though life dictated the need to do so. The first time with the corn snakes were also for the experience as I had a beautiful pair of snow corns. The second time with the corns was a whoops...my hypo and normal were both supposed to be female and I temporarily housed them together at Mom’s when I was moving. The normal was not a female. :rolleyes: My hypo also taught me that snakes can retain sperm for more than a year of seperation, giving me 3 viable eggs and several slugs as a surprise under her water dish.

Fast forward to my current collection and I have several bp’s that would make nice pairings. I’ll probably never breed them, but if I do it will most likely be the bananas...a super banana would be pretty cool...or my pied. For either I am several years away as most of the ones I would consider breeding are yearlings or less. And I pretty much know that if I breed them and get a clutch of beautiful banana or pied babies, I’m going to need more cages. :D

Forgot to add, the females seemed much less impressed than the males and I was lucky not to have any egg binding issues with the corns or complications from the slugs with my boas. I also bred at a time when the market wasn’t quite as saturated with certain species, making it easier to find homes...about 16 years ago, give or take.

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Originally Posted by Dianne

Interesting question and I’ve enjoyed reading the answers. I picked ‘other’ for a couple of reasons. First, to answer your intended question about quality of life, and second to share my experience with breeding boas and corns.

Quality of life I think would depend on the species and the amount of drive demonstrated. You would have to determine if allowing to breed would really settle the animal, and if so, is it something you would potentially allow annually to keep temperment mild. As mentioned by others, there is the strain on the female and the likelihood of complications. I’ve never kept a species that did damage to itself from a mating drive. If I truly believed it would better the life of the adult to allow breeding, then I can see the argument to allow breeding and freeze the resulting eggs. That said, I would not breed a live bearing animal in the same situation, the difference between unformed egg and fully formed live young is distinct for me.

Second, I’ve bred redtail boas, Cuban boas, and corn snakes. Part of it at first was I wanted the experience and part was I had some really beautiful redtail boas. I had 18 perfect healthy babies in the first litter, and a little less than that with a couple of slugs in the second litter. The Cubans were unusual and have small litters (3 healthy babies, no slugs), to this day I regret selling them even though life dictated the need to do so. The first time with the corn snakes were also for the experience as I had a beautiful pair of snow corns. The second time with the corns was a whoops...my hypo and normal were both supposed to be female and I temporarily housed them together at Mom’s when I was moving. The normal was not a female. :rolleyes: My hypo also taught me that snakes can retain sperm for more than a year of seperation, giving me 3 viable eggs and several slugs as a surprise under her water dish.

Fast forward to my current collection and I have several bp’s that would make nice pairings. I’ll probably never breed them, but if I do it will most likely be the bananas...a super banana would be pretty cool...or my pied. For either I am several years away as most of the ones I would consider breeding are yearlings or less. And I pretty much know that if I breed them and get a clutch of beautiful banana or pied babies, I’m going to need more cages. :D

Forgot to add, the females seemed much less impressed than the males and I was lucky not to have any egg binding issues with the corns or complications from the slugs with my boas. I also bred at a time when the market wasn’t quite as saturated with certain species, making it easier to find homes...about 16 years ago, give or take.

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Thanks for the well thought out response.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

I've seen ball python males push during breeding season. I just don't think they're strong enough to hurt themselves.

Boas do rub or push and can mess up their faces or get nose bumps, but not on the same scale that retics do. The retics are so much stronger they can really hurt themselves a lot more.

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With that being said, if you had a retic and you thought breeding was the only way to settle him down would you breed?

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Originally Posted by Skyrivers

With that being said, if you had a retic and you thought breeding was the only way to settle him down would you breed?

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Probably not because there is no guarantee that it would settle him down. He could go right back to pushing as soon as he was separated from the female.

I wouldn't breed them to satisfy urges. I'm not against the ethics involved, I just don't have the space or the resources to deal with a ton of baby snakes. I thought I wanted to breed at one time but I'm just not wanting to deal with the responsibility of finding good homes for them. When I got back into keeping snakes after a many years break I def admit I got caught up in all the BP hoopla. All the new morphs out there that just didn't exist the last time I had BPs. I wanted tons of them. lol It didn't take long to see how much time, money and effort it takes to do it well. I'm happy with the two I have and have always been way more into boas anyway. To me, having a bunch of animals you can't take care of is the unethical part of this topic.