Is it possible that a ball python might WANT to be held all the time??

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Originally Posted by BPmom

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...sjaisauet.jpeg

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Ok, BPmom, a few things.

First, I can see you want what's best for your BP, so as others have said, some things need to be addressed. I/we understand you are new to this and I'll just explain, from my point of view, what needs to be addressed, and please understand I am being matter of fact and not judgmental or snarky. Many people have been keeping reptiles for longer than you and are still learning every day.

Here is a quick list:

1. BP is thin. Get a proper weight and begin feeding according to the schedule below (my apologies if it has already been posted). Use for proper size initially and then for both size and frequency. Being thin now, I would recommend feeding every 7 days for a while and then you can got to every 10-14 as you see fit. Many people here end up offering every 10-14 days as BP's often begin refusing if healthy and happy and proper weight. My female BP eats every 14 days and rarely misses a meal except for her winter fast. When I offered weekly, she refused often.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...ding_chart.jpg

2. You need 2 appropriate sized and identical hides. If addressed, again, my apologies. However, you want a hide on the warm side and the cool side (at least) that your BP can fit snuggly into and feel safe and secure.

3. I think you mentioned you were working on it, but you absolutely, positively, need a thermostat for every heating device! Cooler temps make reptiles as risk of illness (usually over extended exposure) and can make it difficult or impossible for them to properly digest. However, too hot can cause neurological damage, burns, and death, quickly.

People often seem to think if 90F is good, 95F is better! It doesn't work like that.

Aim for a 88-90F hot spot, 82-84F ambient temps, and about 78-80F cool side. It's hard to maintain a wide range in a small, and especially glass, tank. I'll address that in a minute. Worst case, 88-90F hot spot and 78-82F cool side with some gradient in between will work for now.

We can recommend good thermostats if you are unsure what to get.

DO NOT RELY on thermostat probes or air temp thermometers for actual ground temperature. Always use a good temp gun! Calibrate that temp gun by shooting the beam at your room thermostat and adjusting accordingly. If room thermostat reads 70F and the temp gun reads 71F, subtract 1F from whatever reading you get from the temp gun. Shoot the thermostat at the same distance (as close as possible) as you shoot the ground of the enclosure. Try to keep the beam as straight as possible (up/down) and avoid long distances or angles, if possible.

Those 3 need to be addressed ASAP.

Also, you are probably going to want a larger (non-glass) enclosure soon as well. Glass tanks are difficult to maintain temps and humidity in. Not impossible, especially in summer, but come dry north east winters, not too easy.

We can all chime in on what, how much to spend, etc. later. However, I wanted to plant the seed. You will spend more time adjusting and fiddling with the small glass tank and spend more money on electricity etc. in the long run then you would need to if you get a proper enclosure.

You mentioned misting. Okay, if necessary, but not ideal. When it's 20% humidity in my house in the dead of winter, and 45-50% in my BP and BCI tanks, I will spray every 2-3 days to keep it over 55-60%. However, I have enclosed tanks (Boaphile Tanks) and it holds the humidity well once I raise it. In a glass tank, it's really a losing battle.

If you must mist, USE WARM-HOT (tap - 115-125F usually, not boiling) water. Cool water in a spray bottle gets cold when sprayed. Not good. Warm-Hot water cools down to luke warm water. You don't want to shock the tank and especially your BP by spraying in cool water. That's a recipe for your BP to get sick.

Finally, I have included below my steps for defrosting F/T prey items. Everyone seems to have their own technique, but this has worked for me for years.

STEPS FOR DEFROSTING F/T RODENTS/PREY

1. Put prey item(s) into appropriate size plastic bag (1 for each). I use Quart size ziplock bags up to a medium rat. NOTE: Bags are optional. Some people just throw the prey in the water. I like the bags, but you have to squeeze the air out of them.

2. Fill the container/storage box 3/4 of the way with room temp to slightly warm water. If you have a temp gun (which you should, so if you don't, get one), make sure the water is not hotter than 85-90F, or there about.

3. Put F/T prey item(s) in water. Cover (optional) and leave for an hour +/-.

4. After an hour, rotate/flip prey. If in plastic bags, they often will stay on whatever side you put them in on. So if mouse is on left side, turn to right side, etc.

5. Leave for another hour +/- for a TOTAL of about 2 hours (up to medium sized rat - longer if bigger prey for when ROE is bigger and eating Large rats, for example).

6. Check that prey is defrosted totally through. Squeeze at different sections of the preys body. Should be cool/room temp to touch, but be soft with no cold spots. If hard (except for bone), in abdomen, for example, or cold, put back in water until room temp and soft.

7. Take prey out of the container/storage box and put aside. THEN FOLLOW STEPS 8-11 OR STEP 12

8. Fill container with hot water from tap. If using temp gun, water temp should be 110-130F, not more.

9. Drop prey item into water for 30 seconds +/-. If multiple prey items, do one at a time. You want each item hot when you offer.

10. Remove (if hot water, with tongs).

11. Dry as best as you can, and is quickly as you can, with paper towels. I dry with paper towels while I am walking from the bathroom where I defrost to the snake tanks. I kind of wrap the prey item up in them. It's ten feet, so by the time I get to the tanks, the prey is drier, but still warm.

12. If not using hot water, use a hairdryer to heat rat so it entices snake

13. Open tank and offer ASAP.


This may sound like a lot, but do your best to absorb as much as possible, and please ask questions! We are here to help.

Good luck!

Everyone is giving you good advice, but here is what I would do different. Don't wait to feed, he is hungry and I am actually surprised he has not gone after your hand. Use this to your advantage and give him the proper sized ft rat according to the chart. If you want you can thaw a mouse in the same bag and this will pretty much ensure he will take the rat as long as it is at the right temp.

Wow, somehow I missed a lot!!

Although much has already been said, I'm going to reiterate a few things that are important.

A) ALL HEAT SOURCES SHOULD BE REGULATED BY A THERMOSTAT. Otherwise you're risking serious burns, neurological issues or death. And it can happen FAST. Snakes handle cooler temps much better than hot temps, but. T-stat will get that regulated. VERY VERY IMPORTANT

B) That's a thin, hungry snake. Poor thing has never eaten a proper meal on its life. I would feed immediately, a properly sized meal. Then feed every 7 days until the snake packs on some weight. At that point every 10-14 days.

C) I'm a New Englander as well, I'm in MA. Glass tanks can work just fine, I've been doing it for years. If you decide to stick with glass I advise wrapping it in 1/2" foam board insulation. It helps immensely with heat and humidity control.

I know it's a lot to take in, and you're doing your best to learn on the fly. So I'll just say this: choose wisely who you learn from. Always cross reference any info you receive before assuming it to be true. There is a LOT of crap on the internet, and plenty of people spewing crap in pet stores, etc...So, before putting anything onto action, consider the source, cross reference and decide what's best for you and your snake.

Good luck!!! Feel free to ask any questions you may have, we're happy to help!

BPs might get hooked on mice, so you might also want to try rubbing mouse on the rat before attempting to feed. Occasionally when my BPs went off feed I'd ask for things like gerbil droppings to motivate them to eat better. They like the scent since it's closer to the size of prey they normally eat. Since he's hooked on mice, coaxing him on rats might take a few shots.

Also BPs, tend to roam around when they have an improper enclosure/hide/new surroundings--My older girl likes to wander around the cage when I've changed the bedding--all my snakes do that. I have a policy of checking on, but not handling a snake for the first week or so, so they can get used to it.

20 gallons, BTW, is too small in the long run and the hide you have there on the warm end is insufficient in my estimation.

30 (long) for a full grown 40 for a breeder tank. It's worth the investment since Ball Pythons can live until they are 40 years old!

The hide should be closed on three sides at least and relatively tight. Snakes like small dark places, if it's light on one side, that's not going to cut it. The point isn't so you can see the snake like in a pet store, the point is so they feel secure.

For my older snakes, I got these play pens and then cut out a hole out of them. For the younger snakes I use a shin ramen bowl for 99 cents that I've washed and cut a hole out of.

https://www.amazon.com/Tot-Tutors-Pr...words=toy+bins

Granted, though, you have one, so going to a regular hardware store and getting a hardware tool bin might also work. One of my snakes (when he was alive) loved his over the play bin hide--I made him a custom one out of clay and he broke it over and over unlike the other snake I brought with him. Not sure why on that one. (Not common)

My snakes don't really care about light over the top of the cage, so yeah, Under the tank heat is the way to go with about 1 inch bedding. Aspen.

BTW, Ball Pythons do have something analogous to frontal lobes and do vary in personality. But I try to limit handling to once a week.

My older girl is the only ball python in my collection that LOVES being handled (She doesn't even go into her hides when I lower her head there... she instead tries to escape. I've tried also the hey, dark place straight ahead method and nope...). Constantly trying to escape, probably bored (some of her offspring also act like her). But she's always been that way. The rest of them don't love it, but tolerate it nicely. My cinnamon, which I didn't breed, but bought is a cloister type--rarely comes out unless it's really hot and needs to take a dip to cool off. My Pastel, which I produced is somewhere between his father and mother-- always out for food, like his mother. (as in completely out of his hide) and then back in the rest of the time like his mother.

But my ball python girl is the exception (20 years on she's like this), not the rule. Hates, being in anything other than a tank. Does not like crawling back into her hide when head is there, likes being out half the time. I accuse her early and often of being a boa. (and mind you, I owned thamnophis before her, so I thought she would be like most snakes)

Also, sometimes snakes are more active during breeding season... but in your case, you need to help him settle. I've also observed that snakes sometimes remember the habits of their old owners. One of my older ball pythons before he passed on used to "kill" the rat, leave it like it was freshly frozen and then eat it a bit later. I broke him of the habit, but his previous owner used to feed him frozen/thawed, so he'd act like it was frozen-thawed.

But yeah, as a rule, try to let him settle and get used to the scents and upgrade the hide so it's nice and dark for him on the warm end.

Thanks again! It gets tough between hot humid days and cool nights but I am going to get the thermostat today. (Rural area hardware stores don’t have any of what I need) and that’s funny your from MA. That’s where we are from too but just moved to Maine maybe 2 years ago. All advice I can get helps but glad to hear from someone who suffers the same New England weather as we do!

no no no

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Welcome to the forum & to keeping snakes. Snakes are different from other pets in that even if bred in captivity, they are not 'domestic' animals. It takes a while to really
interpret their actions correctly, especially since this is your first, and it's not always what it seems. They cannot directly tell us what they need, so the better we are at
figuring out what their behavior means, the better care we can give them so they stay healthy, and also, the more likely we are to enjoy them as pets.

His activity when you come home from work: many snakes are more active (hunting prey) in the evening, & it's possible that he associates your presence with feeding.
If a snake's cage is uncomfortable (too small, too warm, too cold, lacking privacy, etc) that's another reason they may want out. While it feels better to think they just
want to be with us, that's easy to assume but hard to prove. His actions, waiting when you open the cage, might mean he is used to being fed that way, and when you
instead just pick him up and he clings firmly to you, well some snakes with food on their mind will do that instinctively. (You didn't mention what & how often you are
feeding him...if it's not enough, that could explain a lot...) Of course, I'm not actually seeing his behavior either, and it's true that snakes don't like to fall & hold on to
avoid that, but I've had occasions to let others hold my snakes & some make a point of coming back to me as well...I believe they feel safer with those they "know" best,
which makes sense too. So you see, there's more than one possible interpretation...keep an open mind & watch for clues.

You should be cautious about handling a snake near your face, especially since you & your BP are still getting to know each other. Some snakes do see our face as that
of a scary predator & may panic & suddenly nip, and you do not want a face-bite. There is disagreement among us about purposely handling a snake near your face, in
part because our snakes have variable personalities just as we do. What works for some of us can be dangerous for others. I've kept many snakes for many years &
used them in programs and "meet & greets" with strangers, so honestly, I make sure mine are comfortable around my face and none of them have misbehaved with
others because of that IMO, but I also don't recommend you do that until you know your snake far longer, if ever. Many snakes will innocently climb up our arms &
shoulders & that's different: if they are relaxed & IF you can manage to stay relaxed, it's pretty safe. But that's assuming you are "reading" your snake correctly, and
you say that you are still a bit nervous, as obviously he is too. Any snake that bumps himself & turns around to bite himself twice is nervous, hungry, or both.

As far as him not wanting to be put back in his cage, that's not unusual, but again there's more than one possible answer. Hard to say without more info about his cage.
Some snakes do like handling, others would like to escape. Snakes need traction so they don't like to let go of us for the strange uncertain feeling of being plopped back
in their cage. What you're doing is obvious to you, but not to your snake.

Remember that our snakes don't use vision to recognize us...their best senses are scent & touch. (when your snake appears to chase after you thru the glass/plexi of
the cage, they mostly are chasing unknown motion that might be dinner, NOT saying to themselves "hey, there's my favorite person". It's only by touching them or
when they get our scent that they really recognize us, so remember to communicate with their senses in mind. The less we startle them, the more relaxed they become, and the fewer dumb accidental bites we get.

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Good point about keeping snakes away from faces . One of our members in the UK forum I frequent .... held his snake in front of his face and for so reason at all - it bit him in his eyeball !'

Excruciating pain and permanent damage to his sight .
It was quite a few years ago but the 'image' has remained with me ever since . I recall him saying that it was HIS fault and how guilty he felt ..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Good point about keeping snakes away from faces . One of our members in the UK forum I frequent .... held his snake in front of his face and for so reason at all - it bit him in his eyeball !'

Excruciating pain and permanent damage to his sight .
It was quite a few years ago but the 'image' has remained with me ever since . I recall him saying that it was HIS fault and how guilty he felt ..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

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That would be such a horrific injury...and one in a million, but still, you don't want to be that "one". Snakes can open their mouths so wide, it's not as if they have
to get their jaws around something to bite & cause damage. It really isn't the snake's fault either but it takes a really 'big' person to say that & blame themselves.

Long before I got into snakes, I was into riding horses, & oddly enough, the two vastly different creatures have something in common- they can spook at things and
hurt you. So years later when I held a snake that I'd had for a while & sensed that she was still uncomfortable with my "predator face", I decided that her reach &
that of other snakes could always be a potential issue when handling them. I decided to de-sensitize them (as you might a horse) with repeated & gentle exposure
using touch & then proximity so they no longer harbor any fear of faces. I'm not suggesting that everyone do this, however...we all have different personalities as
do our snakes, and we all have to accept responsibility for the risks we decide to take. I'm actually not much for taking risks at all, but I know my snakes very well.
Handling someone else's snakes though, that's NOT a chance I'd take. It's understandable that they might panic.

The safest thing would be to wear some clear safety glasses when handling snakes (if one doesn't already wear glasses). I sure wear them when I mow grass, use
my string trimmer or any other power tools.