Personal Opinions on Spiders

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Originally Posted by Valyrian

Mutts live longer because of that too

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I apologize I brought up the dog thing haha

But this is a myth- mutts are just a random draw, like buying raffle tickets. It totally depends on the individual unknown genetics of the mutt, just like it depends on the individual genetics of the purebred. Many purebreds that come from long lines of health tested and proven dogs are setting their chances high of producing more healthy dogs. While mutts are never bred ethically/are randomly bred/some stray dogs had puppies on the street, so really are luck of the draw and mostly have lower chances of being healthy than well-bred purebreds.

There are well bred and poorly bred purebreds.

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Originally Posted by MD_Pythons

i've never heard of anyone breeding BPs without heat pits, could you share the video? I always heard things like "BP breeders intentionally breed snakes without eyes" but I could never find anyone doing anything of the sort.

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https://youtu.be/E_oUioVhVEo

The part with the missing heat pits is around 02:50

Edit: I think that image is actually the snake with no heat pits.

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Originally Posted by Valyrian

https://youtu.be/E_oUioVhVEo

The part with the missing heat pits is around 02:50

Edit: I think that image is actually the snake with no heat pits.

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Strange...I definetly wouldnt be buying ine without heat pits, thats for sure. Id also probably avoid scaleless, but we'll see if that opinion holds if they drop down from $30,000.

As for woth spiders...it is very true that they wouldnt live in the wild, and is technically unethical. Personally, i believe i will continue looking, and possibly purchase, a spider morph, not just for looks but also now knowing the risks and condition of the snakes with it.

If anyone wants to see the main reason why many people dont like it, and what the "against" side is talking about with a video, this is a good one: https://youtu.be/uflWWZhmoYM

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Originally Posted by Slicercrush

Strange...I definetly wouldnt be buying ine without heat pits, thats for sure. Id also probably avoid scaleless, but we'll see if that opinion holds if they drop down from $30,000.

As for woth spiders...it is very true that they wouldnt live in the wild, and is technically unethical. Personally, i believe i will continue looking, and possibly purchase, a spider morph, not just for looks but also now knowing the risks and condition of the snakes with it.

If anyone wants to see the main reason why many people dont like it, and what the "against" side is talking about with a video, this is a good one: https://youtu.be/uflWWZhmoYM

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I recently watched that same video.

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While I like the looks of a few spider combos, spider is currently the only morph that I exclude through filtering in my MorphMarket browsing. Not in any way knocking those who purchase or breed them, I just can't justify the potential risk.

I don't have much of a problem with spiders, as I've seen enough examples of spiders thriving in the hands of people I really respect to have dropped most of my issues with them. It's not an entirely negative trait either- Most spiders seem to have a real zest for food, which is definitely a big perk in my opinion.

Ultimately, I think it's up to the person purchasing one to decide whether or not a spider, or any other wobble morph, is a good fit for them. Dynasty had a champagne ringer that I looooved, but I felt that it would not be a good first snake for me. I wanted to get used to normal ball behavior and quirks, and get some of my anxiety out of the way, before going down that path.

That said, I do have an interest in seeing if the wobble can eventually be bred out of such morphs. One of the tentative breeding projects I've contemplated includes working with black head X champagne combos, since black head seems to take the wobble out of spiders, and how such a cross might effect their appearance and joy for food.

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Originally Posted by Slicercrush

As for woth spiders...it is very true that they wouldnt live in the wild, and is technically unethical.

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The problem here is it did. The original spider came in as a wild caught out of Africa

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Originally Posted by StillBP

The problem here is it did. The original spider came in as a wild caught out of Africa

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Really? Thats actually really interesting, im gonna need to look it up. Thanks for the info!

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You guys that won’t get a spider because you think they have some terrible defect are missing out on a great morph for no good reason. Most of you have probably never owned one so your basing your decision on some video of one of the worst cases. So far I’ve had 9 spiders and out of all of them only one did something noticeable and that’s twisting her head oddly when she smells food and then striking wildly. That’s it, the rest you’d never know had any neurological issues. The one that does, it’s noticeable but it doesn’t negatively affect her life in any way. You guys that are acting like spiders are suffering have obviously never owned one. The crazy video you see of a spider doing crazy corkscrewing and unable to eat is just like any other birth defect. It happens and those animals need to be euthanized just like any other birth defect that will affect an animals well being. Most spiders are nothing like that.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

I apologize I brought up the dog thing haha
But this is a myth- mutts are just a random draw, like buying raffle tickets. It totally depends on the individual unknown genetics of the mutt, just like it depends on the individual genetics of the purebred. Many purebreds that come from long lines of health tested and proven dogs are setting their chances high of producing more healthy dogs. While mutts are never bred ethically/are randomly bred/some stray dogs had puppies on the street, so really are luck of the draw and mostly have lower chances of being healthy than well-bred purebreds. There are well bred and poorly bred purebreds.

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Not to be a pain, but I have to disagree. I see dozens of dogs a day, the purebreds and designer breeds have more chronic issues - as an example it is 100% known fact that boxers as a breed have a higher chance of dilated cardiomyopathy than random mixes (dobermans and Irish wolfhounds too). A golden-doodle is more likely to have allergies than a jack russle/poodle/beagle/lab mix. All toy breeds have much higher chances of dental issues - because they have been bred to be small - genetically as canines they are trying to fit the same number of teeth into a skull that nature never intended. Therefore the more breeds you throw into a genetic make up the less likely genetic issues are to be expressed - it's called hybrid vigor.

I do agree that mixes can have the issues for their parent breeds - which is why if you have a "white-footed" mutt that develops cancer, you should have it genetic tested for the MDR1 gene to ensure it can tolerate certain chemo-therapies and other drugs. The MDR1 issue stems from collies and other herding breeds. I have met and treated very sick mutts too, it's just not as common for the chronic issues that I see in other breeds.

Again: no disrespect, but I have this talk with clients on an almost weekly basis - hybrid vigor will win out over line-genetics more often than not