Why are shows so lame now?

Shows are always going to be as good as the people that go to them. Monthly show in Taylor,MI always seems to do good. Personally I tend to sell lower end stuff as I keep the higher end stuff. There are vendors there that sell multi-thousand dollar animals which generally only get sold to other vendors. There are vendors who have a wide range of exotics, some I couldn't even tell you what they are. Theres tarantulas and other bugs, exotics mammals.... even very domesticated mammals (I still don't understand why there are normal cats and dogs for sale at an exotics show). I tried vending at other local shows, but the shows didn't bring in enough people willing to spend money to make it worth my time, most people treat it like a zoo where you can hold stuff. If you want good vendors, you need good customers and if you want good customers, you need good vendors. Shows aren't easy to organize.

So i guess the tl;dr version... you're going to the wrong shows.

My local-ish show (Scott Smith’s All-Animal Expo, Wheaton, IL, every couple weeks) has a variety. Yeah, there’s lots of BPs and cresties, but there’s also plenty of other interesting and less common species. It’s billed as an “all-animal” expo, so you do get some of everything, but the emphasis still seems to be on herps and inverts (or are inverts part of the herp umbrella? Anyway...). The people I get feeder rabbit kits from there also have decent PVC enclosures, and Pangea makes the trek over from Michigan.

Unfortunately, the variety also extends to crummy vendors (bunch of snakes dumped in a grungy 10-gallon tank, etc.), but interestingly, they seem to be concentrated in one area, so they’re easy to skip.

Our corn snakes, my hobby hondo, and IJ carpet python all came from the local expo, and most recently I was drooling at chahoua and leachie geckos - which I did not expect to see there. (ended up buying my leachie from somebody else, but a breeder from the local show was on my short-list).

The other nice thing about the local show is that even when its crowded you can still move around. I couldn’t do that midday Saturday at Tinley! [emoji849] And it’s small enough that you can see everything without wearing yourself out, which is important for us olde phartes. I may try hitting one of the S.E.W.E.R. (SE Wisconsin) shows this year, as well as the Chicago Herptological Society’s annual show. I’d like to see what the other not-ginormous shows are like, compared to the local one and NARBC.


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Originally Posted by Prognathodon

My local-ish show (Scott Smith’s All-Animal Expo, Wheaton, IL, every couple weeks) has a variety. Yeah, there’s lots of BPs and cresties, but there’s also plenty of other interesting and less common species. It’s billed as an “all-animal” expo, so you do get some of everything, but the emphasis still seems to be on herps and inverts (or are inverts part of the herp umbrella? Anyway...). The people I get feeder rabbit kits from there also have decent PVC enclosures, and Pangea makes the trek over from Michigan.

Unfortunately, the variety also extends to crummy vendors (bunch of snakes dumped in a grungy 10-gallon tank, etc.), but interestingly, they seem to be concentrated in one area, so they’re easy to skip.

Our corn snakes, my hobby hondo, and IJ carpet python all came from the local expo, and most recently I was drooling at chahoua and leachie geckos - which I did not expect to see there. (ended up buying my leachie from somebody else, but a breeder from the local show was on my short-list).

The other nice thing about the local show is that even when its crowded you can still move around. I couldn’t do that midday Saturday at Tinley! [emoji849] And it’s small enough that you can see everything without wearing yourself out, which is important for us olde phartes. I may try hitting one of the S.E.W.E.R. (SE Wisconsin) shows this year, as well as the Chicago Herptological Society’s annual show. I’d like to see what the other not-ginormous shows are like, compared to the local one and NARBC.


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Last weekend went to the Herp show in Pasadena, TX. I would consider it a medium size show. Had everything from BPs to tortoises. There was a sizeable retic presence as well. I don't think they had any HOTS this time. (not my thing either way). I enjoyed walking around and seeing everything from start to finish. My girlfriend took in a 5ft RTB when she was looking for a BP. :O:D That was kind of random purchase. I did take a quick look at the care for her before we took her home and had a enclosure empty at the house already. I told her to be careful about frenzy when going to your first show. She was sucked in from the time she walked through the door. The RTB is housed at my house:rolleyes: but is cool. I knew it was going to be the case. She does buy it feeders though.

Shows are what they are. Some people love the exposure to new people. Like I said, just wish care sheet was a requirement at the shows was included in the purchase. Education and education and education. Is why I ask so many questions and read so much. So many times I see craigslist posts where someone purchased a snake and then lost interest or was not for them, or is worried now they the snake is not healthy. I have offered to rescue a couple but the answer is always the same. Wanting $$$$ for something they cant care for "according to their CL post" anylonger:taz::taz::taz:. I think education is the biggest issues with all herp shows.

From a breeders perspective I would think that you could move a lot more snakes a lot easier at shows vs. Morphmarket. If you sell online you have to have a dialog back and forth that can go on for a long time, then box them up and ship them out. At the last Repitcon show I was watching a vendor sell dozens of ball pythons in just a couple hours, so much easier. He had a lot of high end Clown stuff that was flying off of his table and from what I saw they all looked like they were priced at or below what you could get them on Morphmarket. This guy was a pro, had two tables of solid display cases, four guys helping him sell, professional setups with LED lighting and all employees had the same t-shirts. I talked to the guy for about 20 minutes, he said he was planning on expanding his business and was doing very well. He said he had 400 females, hatched out babies year round, and all he did was travel around and sell ball pythons for a living. And this was a spring show when no other breeders really had anything since most people hatch out stuff in the fall. His tables and professional presentation really changed the show.

Personally I like to see some high end snakes at shows even if I can't afford it, I think it encourages people to get into that project. I see some tables at Tinley that are priced super high, most are worlds firsts and one of a kind stuff, cutting edge snakes. I'm sure they don't sell very much but it builds the excitement as to what is possible. When we go to shows we always look for the cheapest snake, the most expensive snake, the biggest snake and the smallest snake. It's kind of a game we play. The NARBC before last that I went to had a high price of $30,000 on the most expensive snake, of course that was the Stormtrooper LOL. At the local Repticon two weeks ago the high priced snake that I saw was a Scaleless Head Spinnerblast (Pastel Pinstripe Spider) for $2,000. The largest was a big ol retic, I was surprised they let that one in the door LOL.

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

From a breeders perspective I would think that you could move a lot more snakes a lot easier at shows vs. Morphmarket. If you sell online you have to have a dialog back and forth that can go on for a long time, then box them up and ship them out. At the last Repitcon show I was watching a vendor sell dozens of ball pythons in just a couple hours, so much easier. He had a lot of high end Clown stuff that was flying off of his table and from what I saw they all looked like they were priced at or below what you could get them on Morphmarket. This guy was a pro, had two tables of solid display cases, four guys helping him sell, professional setups with LED lighting and all employees had the same t-shirts. I talked to the guy for about 20 minutes, he said he was planning on expanding his business and was doing very well. He said he had 400 females, hatched out babies year round, and all he did was travel around and sell ball pythons for a living. And this was a spring show when no other breeders really had anything since most people hatch out stuff in the fall. His tables and professional presentation really changed the show.

Personally I like to see some high end snakes at shows even if I can't afford it, I think it encourages people to get into that project. I see some tables at Tinley that are priced super high, most are worlds firsts and one of a kind stuff, cutting edge snakes. I'm sure they don't sell very much but it builds the excitement as to what is possible. When we go to shows we always look for the cheapest snake, the most expensive snake, the biggest snake and the smallest snake. It's kind of a game we play. The NARBC before last that I went to had a high price of $30,000 on the most expensive snake, of course that was the Stormtrooper LOL. At the local Repticon two weeks ago the high priced snake that I saw was a Scaleless Head Spinnerblast (Pastel Pinstripe Spider) for $2,000. The largest was a big ol retic, I was surprised they let that one in the door LOL.

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Growf, fat-fingered a button and took longer typing than I thought it would. Here’s my actual reply - admins, feel free to delete my previous post.

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

From a breeders perspective I would think that you could move a lot more snakes a lot easier at shows vs. Morphmarket. If you sell online you have to have a dialog back and forth that can go on for a long time, then box them up and ship them out. ... snippetty .... This guy was a pro, had two tables of solid display cases, four guys helping him sell, professional setups with LED lighting and all employees had the same t-shirts.

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I can’t speak for breeders, but I suspect it’s pretty similar to selling craft-ish items:

Shows cost money. Money money money. I just took a really fast look at the vendor information for my local show and MorphMarket, and the show is about the same cost as the upper tiers of MorphMarket. I assume something like NARBC has a higher booth cost. Plus food, and drinks (venues are usually dry, and all that talking to people means you need something to drink). Any level of display costs money, and the nicer it is the more it costs. And you’re at least feeding your crew, if not paying them actual wages. Power for your booth? Probably costs extra.

Then there’s time. A show is going to wipe out you doing anything for a space from that day, to the whole weekend, plus more or less time packing up beforehand and unpacking after. You need signage. You have to have a price-list or some kind of cheat sheet for your crew. You have to go to the bank so the cash box is stocked. Depending on how big/long the show is, you may have to take time off from work for prep, the show itself, and/or recovery.

Effort: Setting up and tearing down a booth is work, especially when you start hauling bigger items.

Contrast to that, on-line sales may not cost as much, you do have to take and edit pictures and upload, but you can do that in bits and pieces as you have time - so a little while every evening. You need to respond to customers promptly, but you have some leeway. And what can be the biggest thing, on-line can mean exposure to a lot more people, that can’t/won’t be able to come to the shows you’re at.

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Also meant to add, shows vs. on-line doesn’t have to be an either/or, you can do both! In-person shows can definitely lead to on-line sales, in my non-reptile experience.


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I recently attended an expo in Palm Beach. Purchased a baby Children's Python. I have also gone to these expos in the last few years, having purchased a BTS and a beardie. I try to go no more than twice a year. I like going but I also dislike that it attracts a lot of bad breeders and consumers who buy animals on impulse. Vendors have no time to talk to you and won't tell you what you need unless you ask, even then, they sugar coat the care requirements to make that sale or rush through the explanation. Only 1 breeder I come across, the one I bought my beardie from, really cared and took the time to talk to me, making sure his animals go to good homes.

Oh I still remember this one ball python vendor. He was selling hatchlings who had not eaten yet. For real?

Never been to one. I do everything online. Ive bought and/or sold 10 different ball pythons in 2 years, all through the internet.
Ive window shopped hundreds of snakes online. Ive learned everything i know about snakes online.
Im typing this right now on the internet!

With the internet, i see no reason to attend a reptile show, except for just the novelty of it maybe.

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Originally Posted by Godzilla78

Never been to one. I do everything online. Ive bought and/or sold 10 different ball pythons in 2 years, all through the internet.
Ive window shopped hundreds of snakes online. Ive learned everything i know about snakes online.
Im typing this right now on the internet!

With the internet, i see no reason to attend a reptile show, except for just the novelty of it maybe.

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It's one of the few social outlets for the hobby. It was a great place to meet breeders in person that you hear about online (you might be surprised at how your perception changes), talk to some of the 99% of local hobbyists who don't participate in online forums, and maybe learn a few new tips and tricks. Plus, seeing animals in person is sometimes different than photos on a screen. Now it's just a giant pet store catering exclusively to the pet store crowd. Oh well, times change.