OK, need some help here.

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

To me your retic looks mighty thin. My dwarf retic can eat up to 10% of her body weight every five days! I'd feed way more until you get some girth on that snake, then once they fill out a bit you can cut way back. My dwarf just passed the ten pound mark and is now too heavy for my scale LOL. When they are young their metabolism is super fast, in just two days a large rat bump is completely gone, personally I think they should be fed every five days when young. Once they get a bit bigger and older they slow way down.

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It's also a male, and has super dwarf blood. Both of which contribute greatly to a much leaner built animal. Just because it will eat every time food is offered doesn't mean it needs to.


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I look at the 'neck' just behind the head, I think it should be filled out more on that snake.

Besides constantly being hungry he looks great. I've always compared male retics to 3 year olds. Their heads get huge and look like bobble heads for awhile as their body's catch up.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

I look at the 'neck' just behind the head, I think it should be filled out more on that snake.

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I disagree, and respectfully so don't take it harshly as I can't convey tone in typed words.

This particular breeder (Caesar's and Wallace's) also recommends a midline, maintenance feeding program for his D/SD males.

That snake isn't even a year old yet, a male, and has a combined percentage of dwarf and SD blood.

Granted they are active, they are not colubrids, and people purchase the dwarf and SD variants specifically for the smaller size.

He is already feeding large rats, and somewhat frequently at that.

I think his snake looks in excellent shape, and will fill out fully in time.

I also don't think a snake should be fed to the point where it becomes inactive. The species is active and should be.

Once you stuff it and it sits curled up constantly, you are on your way to cutting its life short.

Pushing is very common in retics. It is not all about food. They are active, they explore, they are said to be intelligent or at least have instinctual traits that resemble intelligence. I have a female carpet that is a very picky eater, She is monthly at best and she pushes now and then. She knows where the cage opens, and if I open it she will come out, then go back in, then come out. It's just her silly behavior. No food, live or frozen will change that. She refuses on the spot.

Caesar's neck may look small, but that's because the head is growing and the jaw muscles behind it are getting larger.

My boa is a mature adult now and his head grew, then he filled out, then filled out more the neck is finally looking nice. Retics get long and skinny first and then size up. My carpet was the same, and actually so was the royal. I think Caesar will be more than in shape when he grows into his adult years if not over fed.

I think the caging, the gaps and some other factors are in play here. I have an animal that is 13 days younger and still eating small rats. He's not a pusher and refused his last meal and has refused in the past. Caesar is simply a busier guy and may need some optional caging decor or a larger size.

Sauzo has already experimented with adding food and things keep going back to the pushing. I think its time to search other avenues. Maybe a slight temp drop, push toy, change some husbandry, shorten the light cycle, so many possibilities. Or maybe he pushes his whole life.

Throwing food at the problem isn't a solution here IMO.

Well here is a better picture to give you more perspective on his size. At last weigh in last week I believe, he was around 2108g or somewhere around there, I cant remember now, dang old age :P
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...ddf005e9_h.jpg

You can see here his head is in proportion to his body and his tail from the vent back is in proportion to vent forward. I notice in a lot of fat snakes, it looks like someone cut the tail off at the vent and then glued a thinner tail on. It's like the snake has huge hips lol. And that's what I'm trying to avoid. Much easier to fatten a snake up if needed than to try and slim one down.

@Gio- He was getting about a 200g large rat every 10 days. To tell you the truth, he got 1 large rat that was 240g and that lasted him about 2 weeks but he also went into shed after eating it. Before that he was eating about 160g medium rats but like I said, one was lasting him about 4 days before he started pushing and being a terror. My plan was to up him to large rats but not 240g ones as that left a huge lump in. made him quiet as a church mouse though lol. That's why I was thinking of doing a happy median of 200g as the 160ish gram ones seem to keep him tied over for about 4 days and the 240g looked a bit big. I mean once in awhile sure, I'll give him a big meal and other times give him small meals. I just need to find the happy median and then I can adjust from there.

Lol maybe next week when its feeding time for half of them, I'll drag my scale to the shop with me and weigh a few rats until I find the 200g one so I can get an idea of how big it is. Sure the gals working there will give me grief but I've known them a long time so its all good haha.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Well here is a better picture to give you more perspective on his size. At last weigh in last week I believe, he was around 2108g or somewhere around there, I cant remember now, dang old age :P
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...ddf005e9_h.jpg

You can see here his head is in proportion to his body and his tail from the vent back is in proportion to vent forward. I notice in a lot of fat snakes, it looks like someone cut the tail off at the vent and then glued a thinner tail on. It's like the snake has huge hips lol. And that's what I'm trying to avoid. Much easier to fatten a snake up if needed than to try and slim one down.

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Well said bud.

They are not boas, but having some boa knowledge, as you do helps when it comes to knowing when to say when.

He looks fantastic and I honestly think you are fine with food.

If you are getting worried or really struggling give Kris a shout. I'll bet he'll help you with some ideas.

Wallace just shed and I'm going to feed him tonight. Its been 15 days. He's ready but not going crazy be any means.

They all should settle down a bit after eating. The energy require to process the meal requires it.

Ok since I couldn't edit my post anymore.....And he doesn't push 24/7. Pushing is just part of his routine when he is out and about. He spends a lot of time up on his shelf and also just flat out stretched out across the front of the cage lol. He mostly just does whatever. It's like the boas, the closer to feeding day it gets, the more they become active. The difference is the boas don't stuff their head between the litter dam and door, they just crawl all over their shelves and stare out the front of the doors lol. Maybe I'll just try and find something to pack in the gap which would honestly solve my problems as that's the only thing Caesar does that is destructive to himself except when he got stuck in his plant...stupid snake haha.

And also like bcr said, I'm wondering he 'learned' that if he pushes his head down there, he will get fed. Just like when I walk by, he shoots out to the front but when no food, he hits reverse and goes back to his hide or wherever he was.

I have to say, retics are a completely different deal than boas lol. My boas are easy to read but Caesar definitely keeps me on my toes and like I said, he isn't shy and is a lot more outgoing than the boas. And it doesn't help either that he wont refuse dinner anytime. He once ate his medium rat, Dottie's medium rat AND Luna's adult mouse. And he was a baby then. Honestly if you got picky eaters, buy a retic. Don't need anything else, nothing will go to waste with a retic-can lol :P

Oh and another tell tale sign I've noticed. They get these 2 huge lines of fat down each side of their spine on the top of their back. It looks like the Grand Canyon instead of being flatish lol. Vicky was starting to get the Grand Canyon which is why she has been cut back to 3-4 weeks although she hasn't shed in a good 2 months so I'm expecting a 'filling out' to happen pretty soon. Rosey did the same thing.

Yep,

An "advanced" species.

The pattern behavior could very well be a part of it. But like Zig said that doesn't mean it should be rewarded with food.

They all want food, cripes sometimes I even want food. Drive by a steak place and I'll push too LOL!

Oh and another thing since I don't feel like starting a new thread for it alone, the new hides came in. For those wondering about jumbo RBI hides...they are HUGE!!. I gave Dottie 2 and I don't think she liked them. She crawled all over them and checked them out but she is in blue so I don't think she was happy about it lol. I gave her back her large hides and even though usually half her fat butt hangs out of them, she LOVES them. She immediately crawled in them and curled up lol.

So I ended up giving one to Caesar who seems to like it. He is stretched out inside it with his head at the door lol. I gave another to Rosey who went and inspected it and sat with just her head inside it for about 30 mins. Now she is hanging out at the doorway of it, so I guess it gets her approval. And I gave another one to Vicky who doesn't really even use hides so she looked at it and then sat half stretched out behind her water bowl lol. The other one I just kept and will give it to Rango when he gets big enough for one.

So yeah, the jumbo hide will easily fit a 7' boa if you need a hide for one. The dish soaking tubs from Walmart or Restaurant supply shops will work just as well and cheaper but since I already ordered and paid for the RBI ones, might as well use them. I will say, they are really pretty and made from a different material than the large and medium RBI hides. And they are light too.