BP Climbing like a tree python

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Originally Posted by Mangiapane85

... guess we are opposing forces now though considering you disagree with everything I say.

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To this specifically I don't remember always disagreeing with you and I have not singled you out to dispute what you share here. If you feel that way I am sorry as that was never my intention.

I always try to give the best advice I can from the real world first hand knowledge I have acquired along the way of building my collection. I do not recommend anything that I would not do or use. If it is not good enough for me and my snakes I don't see it as good for anybody else either.

If anything I say goes against what you say it is not me trying to be different or put your advice down. I may simply have different experience that I am drawing from that I am giving my advice from. I always try to give safe advice and will continue to do so.

Well, there are several things here that are not being told and one is that ball pythons are a ground dwelling species for the most part and they are very secretive. They certainly are at home in a termite mound, burrow , or hole until they defecate inside of it or shed their skin and sense that they may be detected by their prey and then they venture out seeking a new place to set up camp. They climb if they have to, but are more comfortable and secure in the confines of a tunnel, excavated area, depression in the ground or even under rocks. As far as the birds are concerned, what these articles aren't stating is that there are quite a few ground dwelling birds, birds that make their nests in the ground and also underground. Most birds, even if they are airborne come to the ground in search of seeds and insects and generally to feed and its probably then that they become vulnerable to the attack of a ball python. Ball pythons are a very thigmotactic species and seek out the comfort and mainly the security of tight fitting spaces. If they are climbing its a in transit to their next secure spot and if they encounter a meal on their travelling mode you know how opportunistic they are. Justin Kobylka chronicles their behavior and has written about this in his travels to Benin, Ghana Africa in the past.

Maybe someone can refer me to a study that mentions this. But one thing I have noticed is that the handful of videos I've or descriptions I've read of people going out looking for ball pythons in their habitat, happened during the day. It makes sense, to; that's when we can what were doing, plus it's easier find then by racing into a hole you know they occupy than by hunting the brush in the dark.
But we all know that ball pythons are nocturnal, or at least, most active at dawn and dusk, and secretive. In generally, we often know a lot less about the habits of nocturnal animals because it's harder to observe them without disturbing their behavior.
If most of the firsthand accounts are from the middle of day when we all know they're likely to be asleep, why should we assume that means they never venture anywhere at night, just because it's harder for us diurnal humans to watch?

One last comment.... all this discussion of climbing is about climbing all the way to the top of an enclosure 12-24" high. That is hardly a stratospheric height. Plenty of ground dwelling animals climb up things that are knee high - we're not talking about the top of a giant Sequoia here. I don't know why it should be so controversial that a mostly terrestrial animal might like climbing things that you could step over, whether you call it terrestrial or semi-arboreal or whatever.

I have zero hands on experience with ball pythons in the field but I have read a lot. My bp will climb on anything I put in her tub. If she was in something taller, she would climb whatever was in there. I think she climbs because she can. Doesn't mean she is arboreal, but she is def going to interact with anything I put in her enclosure.

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Originally Posted by Mangiapane85

It seems like most people disagree with some of the things I say. But, BPs shouldn't climb. They aren't a climbing species of snake. Their heat source should be down on the ground floor. And if they are climbing, that can ONLY mean one of two things. They are seeking more heat or they are stressed.

EDIT: and that statement is directed almost solely towards hatchling and young juveniles. If they are adult size, they might climb "just for fun", but regardless. All the pics posted raise a flag of concern in my opinion. Especially in the wire. Wire is bad! Lol

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My hatchling eats, voids, sheds and hides in her caves during the day and climbs her tree and sits in it all night, hoping a meal will pass by.
It's totally normal. We don't drop temps at night. she's not upset or trying to get out. She's happy up there.

I have 2 BPs. The male is in hide most of the time, and only comes out when the lights are dim (ie at night, in darkened room). This female though is fearless. I had her out and figured I'd put her on the bookcase (on the left) so she could hang out behind some stuff, (including a bookshelf speaker) and I could easily see if she started to climb down.
To my complete surprise, with regular lights on in the room, she went up and across and ended up crossing the top of this tv which is only about 3/4 " wide and 5' above the floor.

http://i.imgur.com/t5PQpPS.jpg

I have had many ball pythons over the years.. I have always provided media for thm to climb on shld they choose.. Some have used it, others have not.. So I think it depends on the snakes wants at the moment when all else is right.

As far as the cage in orig post.. My only concern is this.. That light should never be in the cage as far as I am concerned, even when shielded w wire, which can become hot also. I would suggest you take that light out, remove wire cage..affix flat wire to top of outside of cage..set light directly on that.. You may need to get a different housing for the bulb that has a shield tht enables you to place light sitting ontop. Avoid potential issues w burns.

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Today I had a long talk with my Ball Python. I had to tell her that I found out that she should not enjoy climbing around and it was no behavior a girl like her should participate in. She cried a little but after a little time she settled down and understood she needs to keep her belly on the ground to retain her reputation as a classy Ball Python.

Now I think the GTP and ETB are poking fun at her so they are going to get a stern talking to. Im gonna have to tell them they are not a Bull snake and their bullying will not be tolerated in my home.

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Originally Posted by KMG

Im not trying to be an opposing force against you and Im surprised by your comment. I didnt think you had an issue with me or I with you. I have not agreed with some things you said and obviously have different experience and different style to my keeping but I didnt think Id rubbed you wrong. As to Balls climbing I just don't agree with your statement that a BP being stressed or experiencing husbandry issues being the reason for climbing.

Your snappy comment about me needing to "study the species" is a bit out of line as well. You were presented with facts by others with wild snake observations. Where are your facts? You have not presented any and instead decide to shoot off at the mouth with cute comments to other keepers that did provide information and those that have seen the action in question first hand.

How bout you place your Balls in a cage that they could climb and see what you experience. I have seen your video and pics of your snake room and your snakes don't have anything to do so I bet that is why they do nothing. Its hard to do something when you do not have the opportunity. Your tubs are bare, small, and short. You can see my collection and see that I have true arboreal snakes. I never said my Ball was like my GTP, ETB, or even my BRB which is a great climber.

I can guarantee my Ball is not experiencing any stress and her cage is on point. She has the best tstat and has one of the nicest setups on the forum. I have not gone cheap on any part in any area of my keeping. My snakes have nice cages, proper tstats, and proper heating in their own heated room. They all have a great life in my care and want for nothing.

You ever seen a GTP or ETB coiled on the ground? I have. Just as those two can come down and relax on the ground a Ball can just as easy take a bit of a climb. My GTP and ETB also really enjoy swimming in their water and when up and active at night usually will take a trip around the cage floor and through the water bowl before going back to a perch. Seeing them swim so often really showed me something I would have never guessed. So just as an arboreal snake can slither on the ground there is no reason to believe a Ball Python could not take to a tree.

I think it would be interesting for you to put some of your Balls in taller tubs with some things to climb on and see what your snakes do. They may teach you something.

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Well they're all in a rack now, so I guess they won't be climbing anytime soon.

I get your point man. All of them. Your snakes are display animals, mine aren't. The ball pythons anyway. That being said, I interact with my snakes on an every other day basis. They get plenty of exercise. And I'm fully aware that they have the ability to climb. I'm not some savage snake abuser just because my snakes are kept in a rack and they have "nothing" to do. I love my animals just as much as you do. ;)


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

Today I had a long talk with my Ball Python. I had to tell her that I found out that she should not enjoy climbing around and it was no behavior a girl like her should participate in. She cried a little but after a little time she settled down and understood she needs to keep her belly on the ground to retain her reputation as a classy Ball Python.

Now I think the GTP and ETB are poking fun at her so they are going to get a stern talking to. Im gonna have to tell them they are not a Bull snake and their bullying will not be tolerated in my home.

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Classy. ;)

I didn't mean to hi jack this thread whatsoever. It's a forum that we have the right to express our freedom of speech and to form our own opinions..

And my opinion is that ball pythons don't have to climb to be happy. And I guarantee you that they aren't thinking, "gee. I'm bored. Think I might go for a climb today.".... they are definitely opportunistic though and are definitely curious animals no doubt.


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