Re: Super Coral Glow - male or female maker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kxr
That is a problem, one would assume that in animals as closely related as Burms and balls seemingly are the chromosomal arrangement would be highly conserved. I'm not aware of any organisms where this isn't true however I'd imagine it isn't impossible. What I am curious about is whether two related organisms that have different patterns of sex chromosomes would even be able to produce viable offspring. I'd really like to see what sexes a male burm female ball breeding would produce because that would answer the question.
I apologize if that has already happened and I'm just not aware. Please let me know if it has.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kxr
I was thinking that maybe in the python genus it had switched to the female being zz instead of the male however I was just showing my ignorance. Burmese pythons are in fact in the python genus anyway (which I'm really dumb for not remembering because I've done a few projects on them) and apparently (I know nothing about ZW sex determination) in all applicable species the males are zz. The rate of crossover required for the banana gene to follow that mode of inheritance is another good point. I'm just going to shut up now so I don't seem as stupid to the people who know what's going on here...
Just out of curiosity do you know the underlying principles behind the inheritance patterns of the banana gene?
I dont believe a male burm to a female ball would work out due to the possible size and quantity of eggs. Similar to how a chihuahua can breed a great dane but the smaller dog (chihuahua) has to be the male.
No worries about the mixup. Nobody understands whats going on with it so we're all looking for explanations.
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Re: Super Coral Glow - male or female maker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yamitaifu
I dont believe a male burm to a female ball would work out due to the possible size and quantity of eggs. Similar to how a chihuahua can breed a great dane but the smaller dog (chihuahua) has to be the male.
No worries about the mixup. Nobody understands whats going on with it so we're all looking for explanations.
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If you bred a dwarf burm to one of those subsaharan balls it would probably work. I'm not really sure what you mean by quantity of eggs
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Re: Super Coral Glow - male or female maker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kxr
If you bred a dwarf burm to one of those subsaharan balls it would probably work. I'm not really sure what you mean by quantity of eggs
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That might work. You can disregard the quantity statement. It was regarding clutch size but i failed neglected that it is dependent on follicle development, which the male has no control over. As long as the eggs would not be too large for the ball it should work out.
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Super Coral Glow - male or female maker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yamitaifu
That might work. You can disregard the quantity statement. It was regarding clutch size but i failed neglected that it is dependent on follicle development, which the male has no control over. As long as the eggs would not be too large for the ball it should work out.
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It's too bad burms are illegal here (and I have no idea how to get a sub Saharan ball) I would love to try this just to see what the results would be. I understand it's pretty much impossible considering the required recombinance rate and the fact that one (or possibly a small number) of species in a genus would need to develop unique sex characteristics however it would still be interesting to see what happens.
I guess I'm just really interested in the mechanism behind the banana gene.
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Re: Super Coral Glow - male or female maker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kxr
It's too bad burms are illegal here (and I have no idea how to get a sub Saharan ball) I would love to try this just to see what the results would be. I understand it's pretty much impossible considering the required recombinance rate and the fact that one (or possibly a small number) of species in a genus would need to develop unique sex characteristics however it would still be interesting to see what happens.
I guess I'm just really interested in the mechanism behind the banana gene.
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I'm not sure if i'm misunderstanding you about the results of a burm x ball being nearly impossible but it is far from it. Its been done over and over and the hybrid offsping have even been bred to other burmballs to produce offspring. I apologize if i'm misunderstanding your statements.
I'm currently working on learning and understanding reptile genomics at university (as a personal research and once i get a basis possibly go for a grant and research opportunity) and want to try to figure this thing out.
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Re: Super Coral Glow - male or female maker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yamitaifu
I'm not sure if i'm misunderstanding you about the results of a burm x ball being nearly impossible but it is far from it. Its been done over and over and the hybrid offsping have even been bred to other burmballs to produce offspring. I apologize if i'm misunderstanding your statements.
I'm currently working on learning and understanding reptile genomics at university (as a personal research and once i get a basis possibly go for a grant and research opportunity) and want to try to figure this thing out.
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That's awesome man! So you actually study reptile genomics? I wish I knew that was a program offered somewhere before I started uni haha
Yeah I worded that horribly, sometimes when I try to talk all sciencey it takes me a few tries to word my sentences properly lol
I meant to say that I understand how unlikely it is for the method of sex determination to be changed in a small percentage of a given genus but I'd still like to try to pairing.
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Re: Super Coral Glow - male or female maker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kxr
That's awesome man! So you actually study reptile genomics? I wish I knew that was a program offered somewhere before I started uni haha
Yeah I worded that horribly, sometimes when I try to talk all sciencey it takes me a few tries to word my sentences properly lol
I meant to say that I understand how unlikely it is for the method of sex determination to be changed in a small percentage of a given genus but I'd still like to try to pairing.
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Right now its mainly individual research that i'm doing. Just laying the groundwork for future research. Ive talked to a few professors/doctors of biology and most of them arent too knowledgable about the ZW sex determination system. I am going to be speaking with another prof on friday who works with herps. Right now i'm just a bio major that plans on specializing in herpetology/conservation/evolutionary biology.
If the pairing was done and was successful and it turns out the female ball python is the heterozygote all offspring would have to be ZZ. Whichever species has the larger gametes would determine whether that would be male or female.
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Re: Super Coral Glow - male or female maker?
Where do you go to university? Is it like an actual program you're taking on herpetology & evolutionary biology or is it more of an independent study topic? If it's something the school actually offers that sounds like where I need to be heading XD
All of the offspring would be zz? Considering you're a major and I'm only a 4th year undergrad I'd imagine there's something I'm missing but if you cross a ZZ male burm to a WZ (or whatever) ball would it not have theoretically equal sex ratios?
Although I suppose if the female was homo it could still be 50/50 if she was ww instead of zz
Definitely interesting to think about regardless of how astronomically unlikely it is.
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Re: Super Coral Glow - male or female maker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kxr
Where do you go to university? Is it like an actual program you're taking on herpetology & evolutionary biology or is it more of an independent study topic? If it's something the school actually offers that sounds like where I need to be heading XD
All of the offspring would be zz? Considering you're a major and I'm only a 4th year undergrad I'd imagine there's something I'm missing but if you cross a ZZ male burm to a WZ (or whatever) ball would it not have theoretically equal sex ratios?
Although I suppose if the female was homo it could still be 50/50 if she was ww instead of zz
Definitely interesting to think about regardless of how astronomically unlikely it is.
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I'm still an undergrad at West Chester University. All of my current research is independent on my free time. I wish they offered a specialty degree in that area. Besides taking concentrated courses in those areas i can only get a general bio degree with a limited amount of specialties. Most of the profs here work with other animals, such as snails and mammals.
I thought you were talking about crossing the two to see if the ball had opposite sex gametes. My bad. Following the normal patterns it would have normal ratios.
WW is very rare in snakes. As far as Ive seen it has only resulted from parthenogenesis.
With the small amount of research that has been conducted on reptile genomics I look forward to hopefully opening up new doors.
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Super Coral Glow - male or female maker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yamitaifu
I'm still an undergrad at West Chester University. All of my current research is independent on my free time. I wish they offered a specialty degree in that area. Besides taking concentrated courses in those areas i can only get a general bio degree with a limited amount of specialties. Most of the profs here work with other animals, such as snails and mammals.
I thought you were talking about crossing the two to see if the ball had opposite sex gametes. My bad. Following the normal patterns it would have normal ratios.
WW is very rare in snakes. As far as Ive seen it has only resulted from parthenogenesis.
With the small amount of research that has been conducted on reptile genomics I look forward to hopefully opening up new doors.
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No, you were right, but you said in your previous post if you bred a male burm to a het female ball it would produce ZZ phenotype babies. I guess I should have assumed you meant to say a homo female ball python.
Yeah, you would get ZZ offspring if you bred a ZZ male burm to a ZZ female ball so they would all be a single sex. That's why I wanted to try the cross. If the cross only gave off one sex then you would know that female balls are indeed ZZ.
Now all I'm thinking is would a ZZ burmball be able to breed both male ball pythons and female Burmese pythons or would it be infertile... I think I've fallen too far down the rabbit hole lol
Edit: I just saw that you said whichever species had the larger gamete would decide gender. How does that work?
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