bp 26' long, how big of a rat to feed?

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Originally Posted by xdeus

Well, being that most of us peons probably have a tad less experience than you, we tend to listen to your advice pretty closely.

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I make no claims that my experience is the be all end all to ball python husbandry. I am constantly learning and will continue to do so for a long time I'm sure. I share my experiences and opinions not for people to follow blindly, but to be helpful to people making decisions either one way or the other or for developing a new idea or methodology (I mostly imagine people rolling their eyes and mumbling under their breath when they see my name next to a post :P). There are many many ways to keep these amazing animals and be successful, I've personally had success with some and failure with others and share them all openly.

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Originally Posted by xdeus

many weekend warrior breeders seem to come from the camp where they want their females to grow as big and fat as possible in order to start breeding.

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In a sense, I do as well, but bigger isn't always better when it comes to females. Big "fat" girls make horrible breeders, anyone breeding ball pythons for any length of time will tell you that. Over the years, I've learned how to put "healthy" weight on my girls for better breeding success. Unfortunately for many that are rushing towards the goal of producing morphs for profit, that process may be a little slower than they would like. I tend to think in terms of marathons rather than sprints, so feeding smaller prey items works well for me. But I can certainly see how someone eager to produce their first morph would be inclined to stuff their girls full of big ole rats to "get er done" .... I was there once myself ;)

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I make no claims that my experience is the be all end all to ball python husbandry. I am constantly learning and will continue to do so for a long time I'm sure.

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I think a lot of people in this field feel the same way, however some are more eager to believe what they read the most of or read first instead of what makes sense. One reason I tend to like your advice is that it follows a more scientific approach instead of a bandwagon one. A few examples are feeding on substrate or feeding live. I remember one conversation I had with a woman that seemed to feel anyone who fed live rodents to a snake should be reported to the Humane Society. :rolleyes: I'm sure she has seen the picture of that snake that was essentially killed by a rat so she probably based a lot of her feelings on that one picture.

That's not to say that I agree with all of your advice, well it wasn't really advice but you seem to be a much larger advocate for mice in the mice vs. rat debate. I can see how you can feel that way because so many people seem to want to get their snakes on rats right away because of the stories about growth spurts and such. However for many people it's also based on economics and convenience. It's cheaper and more convenient to use frozen rats from a company like RP instead of using multiple mice. Although I suppose if I had as many snakes as you, I would probably go your route as well for safety and convenience.

BTW, Adam, do you keep any other snakes besides Balls?

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Originally Posted by xdeus

That's not to say that I agree with all of your advice, well it wasn't really advice but you seem to be a much larger advocate for mice in the mice vs. rat debate.

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Actually, that's not true at all. What I advocate feeding is #1 what your snake is willing to eat, and #2 what is most convenient and cost effective for you. Most people that own a ball python or two can get mice pretty cheaply and easily each week from a local pet store or pet store chain. Rats on the other hand can be very expensive compared to mice and finding a good variety of sizes for your growing ball pythons at the local PetCo is a pain in the rear. Ordering a large enough amount of frozen feeders over the internet to be cost effective for shipping can be a hefty sum to plop down for a lot of people as well. IMO, for the average ball python pet owner, feeding mice for the lifetime of the animal can work out very well.

I do advocate feeding smaller sized items than with other commonly kept pythons and boas. I feel that ball pythons have a slower metabolism and many of the complaints of "fasting" experienced with balls are due to people feeding too large of prey items far too often.

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Originally Posted by xdeus

BTW, Adam, do you keep any other snakes besides Balls?

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No, I'm all balls! ;) (although I have kept and bred many species of pythons as well as corns, milks, and kings over the last 25 years).

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Most people that own a ball python or two can get mice pretty cheaply and easily each week from a local pet store or pet store chain.

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Ahhh... okay. I suppose that makes sense, but I found the opposite was true in my area. There are only a couple places around here that can provide live or frozen rodents, and they are incredibly expensive. For example, they want $2.50 for a pinkie mouse or $4.00 for a regular mouse or rat pup. Of course that probably has something to do with reptile enthusiasts being rather sparse around here.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

No, I'm all balls! ;) (although I have kept and bred many species of pythons as well as corns, milks, and kings over the last 25 years).

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It seems like my hobby has spread to my kids, and they are now looking forward to breeding Black Milks. :P I warned them that it will be at least 3 years before they can start breeding, but they don't seem to mind. However I have a feeling I'm in for 3 years of "are they ready yet?!".

BTW, have you seen the homo Spotnose from VPI? incredible.

Out of curiosity Adam, why only interested in balls? I have a bp, and now I want like 10 other snake species because of it.

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Originally Posted by smellati

Out of curiosity Adam, why only interested in balls? I have a bp, and now I want like 10 other snake species because of it.

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Because they were my first passion I guess. I remember the night my dad brought home my first pet ever when I was eight years old like it was yesterday .... A big fat female ball python .... that night, I slept with her in a pillow case next to me in bed.

Since then, I've just always had ball pythons around me (before I had even seen a "morph" or knew what one was). There is just something about them that I am totally obsessed with ... it's a feeling that I never got from the other snakes that I have kept .... it's kind of wierd and "earthy" to say, but I just always feel "at home" when I'm working with ball pythons.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

A big fat female ball python .... that night, I slept with her in a pillow case next to me in bed.

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Hmm... 98.6 sounds a bit high... might want to drop those temps a bit... :P j/k

This is just an odd question. 98.6 is the average internal body temperature. What is an average external body temperature. I'm sure someone out there has temp gun that can tell me. Sorry for the dumb question.

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

This is just an odd question. 98.6 is the average internal body temperature. What is an average external body temperature. I'm sure someone out there has temp gun that can tell me. Sorry for the dumb question.

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I too, would venture to guess that temperatures at extremeties (sp) would be quite a bit lower since it is away from the core temp. I would also guess that they would vary with different extremeties and drop the further they are away from the 'core'. I have a temp gun at home... I can try it later tonight.

Although, if he had the blankets ('binky' at the time? :P ) covering himself and the snake that would hold in quite a bit of heat so actually it may have been just right for the snake... say around 92-95 ish? Just a guess.

Ok, back to more nerd work I go. :nerd:

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Originally Posted by Isshinharu

Although, if he had the blankets ('binky' at the time? :P ) covering himself and the snake that would hold in quite a bit of heat so actually it may have been just right for the snake... say around 92-95 ish? Just a guess.

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When I was 8 years old, there were no websites, DVD's, ball python manuals, or anything else that gave us even the slightest clue about how to care for ball pythons .... I’m pretty sure my father didn't "purchase" her so she came with no care information at all. A lot of how I learned to take care of her was from trial and error ... believe it or not, the first meals she was offered were raw chicken and chop meat left in her cage overnight .... we just didn't know any better at the time.

Needless to say, I've learned a WHOLE lot since then and amazingly enough me and "Tiger" (I thought she was a boy for about 12 years) made it through alright.

-adam