New ball python/ worrying

Idk. If I take my BPs out of their tanks, they immediately unball and start exploring. If I let someone new handle them, they stay balled up until the person has remained still for a long time and hasn't done anything scary. If that person handles them again, they seem to recognize their scent and will unball much faster than they will with a stranger. If the person has done something to scare them in the past, they'll never come unballed for that person.

Is that not trust? Or something like it, whatever word you like, lol.

ETA: oh, I should add, I don't think flooding will work on a BP. Reptiles have fairly primitive brains and if you flood them they'll probably just shut down, go into survival mode. And they won't eat in survival mode.

Whether it works or is necessary in other species I won't comment.

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Originally Posted by Slim

Sounds horrifying for the animal! It also sounds like the basic plot to a creepy BDSM horror movie. And at the risk of pointing out a blinding flash of the obvious, Falcons are not Ball Pythons.




Ok, I have several things to say here, most of which will get me suspended from this Forum for awhile. SOOOOOOO, let me just say that I don't care how many YouTube videos you have, and I don't care how many Falcons you take in the closet, the advice you give in the above quote is simply wrong.

Your advise is a recipe for a stressed out, sick snake that won't eat.

And if you think that any ball python in anyone's collection trusts them, you are deluding yourself as to the cognitive and emotional capability of an animal with a brain the size of an English pea. Can they learn to tolerate our handling of them, and can they learn to accommodate their surroundings? Of course they can. But trust? That simply isn't a trait found in snakes.

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I would suggest re reading that sentence. "The hope is by spending a huge amount of time gently working with that bird it will soon learn to trust you OR LEAST LEARN NOT TO BE AFRAID OF YOU. Believe me the brain of a Red Tailed Hawk isn't much bigger than that of a ball python's brain. In the future if you're going to quote me I would appreciate it if you would at least complete the sentence.

Twenty years ago when I first started doing reptile educational presentations in the San Francisco Bay Area I was warned by just about every breeder I knew that by having my snakes in front of people the snakes would get stressed out and that stress would be the cause of health issues including the lack of feeding response. I appreciated everyone's concern, but sometimes you just got to make these decisions based on your own logic, common sense and experience rather than the logic, common sense and experience of others, that's when I created the other side of my business called For Goodness Snakes Adventures. Sure I wondered how the snakes would act or react when handled by hundreds of children at a time, but was relieved to see that they handled the crowds of children with no issues at all. Now twenty years later and 50,000 people later my snakes are doing fantastic. Just to put my business into perspective I now do between 200 and 300 reptile programs a year that means that 15,000 children per year touch and handle my ball pythons including some that are on my breeding team. We have never had any issues (no one has ever been bit) and the 200 plus snakes in my collection's health level has never been better. Sometimes I do between 5 and 6 presentations a day. In fact I just got home a few minutes ago from doing a program and in a few minutes I'll be going out to feed the collection and as always I don't expect any issues from those that were with me today.

So when you say (and I'm sure that most people would agree with you ) that by handling your snake 15 minutes a day is and I quote you "Your advise is a recipe for a stressed out, sick snake that won't eat", I just smile and shake my head.

Here is a link to one of my videos that will show you what I do at the end of my reptile presentations and again I do about 300 of them a year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyHTt75jgsA

A note to the newbies: It's OK to think outside of the box when it comes to these animals, don't be afraid to try new things to push the envelope.
Remember breeding and selling ball pythons is more of an art than a science, question everything and don't be afraid to try new things.
I'm one of the lucky ones because I get to do this for a living, but no matter how many times I've been told I was wrong or that I was going to fail I leaned on my own experiences, I listened to myself rather than those narrow minded people that were advising me.

Like I've said before I'm here for you guys, let me know if I can help.

Brian Gundy
For Goodness Snakes
408-981-6694

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Originally Posted by chrid16371

As far as feeding in a separate enclosure vs. main enclosure it's better to feed in the main enclosure IMO (whether live or f/t). Moving a snake to a separate enclosure causes stress, then if it does eat you then have to move a snake that is in feeding mode back into there living enclosure which can cause you to get bit or a regurge. Also the snake is going to associate the separate enclosure with feeding only. In the main enclosure you don't have to worry about moving the snake causing stress with possible regurge, your suppose to leave the snake alone for 48hrs after eating and a separate feeding enclosure does not allow you to do that. You don't have to grab the snake after either so you won't get bit from a snake in feeding mode and the snake won't associate there living enclosure with feeding time bc it does way more then eat in there bc it hides, sleeps, explores, goes to the bathroom, tons of things while a separate enclosure only represents food to the snake. Weighing out the pros and cons IMO feeding in main enclosure is the smarter, safer way for both you and your snake. Just make sure you never leave a live rodent unattended with your snake.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

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There's definitely pros and cons to feeding separate. My rule feeding separate is 15 minutes after they realign their jaws move them back. Never had a regurge or a skipped feeding afterwards and feeding separate has never seemed stressful for my animals (my determination being they eat and they eat the time after) however that was feeding exclusively live, as the collection has grown I'm attempting the f/t transition for the first time in I don't know... 7 years maybe. I don't feed in separate enclosures as much anymore but feeding live a big pro is being able to intervene if there's a bad strike. If you're feeding ft I literally see no reason to feed in a separate enclosure.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by For Goodness Snakes

I would suggest re reading that sentence. "The hope is by spending a huge amount of time gently working with that bird it will soon learn to trust you OR LEAST LEARN NOT TO BE AFRAID OF YOU. Believe me the brain of a Red Tailed Hawk isn't much bigger than that of a ball python's brain. In the future if you're going to quote me I would appreciate it if you would at least complete the sentence.

Twenty years ago when I first started doing reptile educational presentations in the San Francisco Bay Area I was warned by just about every breeder I knew that by having my snakes in front of people the snakes would get stressed out and that stress would be the cause of health issues including the lack of feeding response. I appreciated everyone's concern, but sometimes you just got to make these decisions based on your own logic, common sense and experience rather than the logic, common sense and experience of others, that's when I created the other side of my business called For Goodness Snakes Adventures. Sure I wondered how the snakes would act or react when handled by hundreds of children at a time, but was relieved to see that they handled the crowds of children with no issues at all. Now twenty years later and 50,000 people later my snakes are doing fantastic. Just to put my business into perspective I now do between 200 and 300 reptile programs a year that means that 15,000 children per year touch and handle my ball pythons including some that are on my breeding team. We have never had any issues (no one has ever been bit) and the 200 plus snakes in my collection's health level has never been better. Sometimes I do between 5 and 6 presentations a day. In fact I just got home a few minutes ago from doing a program and in a few minutes I'll be going out to feed the collection and as always I don't expect any issues from those that were with me today.

So when you say (and I'm sure that most people would agree with you ) that by handling your snake 15 minutes a day is and I quote you "Your advise is a recipe for a stressed out, sick snake that won't eat", I just smile and shake my head.

Here is a link to one of my videos that will show you what I do at the end of my reptile presentations and again I do about 300 of them a year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyHTt75jgsA

A note to the newbies: It's OK to think outside of the box when it comes to these animals, don't be afraid to try new things to push the envelope.
Remember breeding and selling ball pythons is more of an art than a science, question everything and don't be afraid to try new things.
I'm one of the lucky ones because I get to do this for a living, but no matter how many times I've been told I was wrong or that I was going to fail I leaned on my own experiences, I listened to myself rather than those narrow minded people that were advising me.

Like I've said before I'm here for you guys, let me know if I can help.

Brian Gundy
For Goodness Snakes
408-981-6694

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This is hands down one of the most intelligent posts I have read on here in a long time. I agree 100% with what Brian is saying. Anyone that has trained animals should understand Brian's approach.

The part that is missing though is not everyone is meant to be an animal trainer. I have seen posts on here that absolutely amaze me. You tell people to regulate their heat source, they argue about it and then they are back with a burn. I am continually amazed at the lack of logic some people can display. Experimenting is great when you know how to interpret results. If you have problems interpreting results you should not experiment. It is because of this that we tend to give "safe" advice. Stuff that we know pretty much works every time. I am guilty of this. I tell people to feed in the enclosure. Truth be told I don't always do it. As a matter of fact when I am trying to convert an animal from live to f/t one of the first things I do is feed live in another container. The animal becomes conditioned to know it is being fed when it goes in there. Pretty soon it is so wired to eat in this situation it will hit a F/T. Once it does it is back to feeding in its tub. No one told me this. It makes sense so I tried it and it works. The problem is it doesn't work every time and you have to know when to switch tactics. This is almost impossible to try to describe online, let alone while you are getting slammed for not doing it the "right" way. I am also guilty of telling people to let their animals chill out. Another do as I say not as I do situation. The nastier or the shyer an animal is the more I handle it. Works for me, but I also know when to stop. Once again impossible for me to describe online.

I believe there are many people on here that experiment but are afraid to come forward with their results because they are going to get slammed. I am too old to care about such things. I listen to people's opinions for what they are. I will continue to experiment. Without experimentation we would still be living in caves having to catch our food. Some people need instruction though. Read the warning label on some products some time. They are there because some idiot did whatever it says not to do.

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Originally Posted by For Goodness Snakes

In the future if you're going to quote me I would appreciate it if you would at least complete the sentence.

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I will never change words you typed in and I will never change the order you typed them in, but I'll pull out what I want, when I want to make the point I want. Don't like it? Don't type it. I don't care that your hope is to calm down the Falcon you took from the wild. I was pointing out the intrinsic entertainment value the process must hold for the bird, not the hoped for final result.

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Originally Posted by For Goodness Snakes

A note to the newbies: It's OK to think outside of the box when it comes to these animals, don't be afraid to try new things to push the envelope.

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Before you started pushing your YouTube channel and giving non standard advice, did you even read this thread from the beginning? Do you understand what a lowest common denominator (LCD) is? Because while your advice may work for you, your out of the box art and science really isn't for everyone, is it? Did you read the first paragraph of this thread where the OP said:

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Originally Posted by Haileeboop

Okay, I got my baby ball python Monday and done a lot of research on them.

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Yet, proceeds to ask every basic husbandry question known to Ball Pythondom.... Would you not label this an LCD situation? Would you not want to wait for someone with a little better grasp on the basics of BP husbandry before you toss out the "think outside the box" advice?

Again, I'm glad your Voodoo works for you. I'm glad you have a successful snake farm and such. I'm overjoyed to the point of pooping my britches that you have soooooo many YouTube videos. But, when it comes to slinging out advice, I think you could use a little more discernment in evaluating the experience level of the person asking the question.
:salute:

Thank you to everyone for your helpful advices! Ever since I got my baby ball it seems like she's skinny because her skin is kind of stretchy I think that's how you would say it ;-; I haven't fed her yet because I don't want to frighten her even more and not have her eat for a longer periods of time. I might try sometime this week. What if she refuses to eat again? What do I do? I know that she can't go without food for a long period of time considering she's only a baby :( this has been on my mind. She's been going to her different hides and her tongues been flickering too so I guess those are good signs. Plus I've been seeing nats in her enclosure should I clean her tank? Or would that make her stressed out? Idk where those bugs are coming from but the lid is always closed so there's no way bugs could get in

I've worked with birds of prey my whole life, and I would never compare their behavior to that of a ball python. Compleeeeetely different animals in more ways than just species.

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Originally Posted by O'Mathghamhna

I've worked with birds of prey my whole life, and I would never compare their behavior to that of a ball python. Compleeeeetely different animals in more ways than just species.

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You guys are just not getting it.

I don't care if your talking about ducks or Mountain Lions the best way I have found to get an animal to be more comfortable around you is to smother it with your presence. I learned this technique as a falconer, but it works with just about all animals. HELLO CAN YOU HEAR ME?

As far as I'm concerned this post has been a waste of everyone's time.

Brian Gundy
For Goodness Snakes
408-981-6694

I can hear you, Brian. I just don't agree with your aproach. Particularly when it comes to ball pythons.

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Originally Posted by Slim

I can hear you, Brian. I just don't agree with your aproach. Particularly when it comes to ball pythons.

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The sad part about it is that this post is not about me and shouldn't be about me, it's about Hailee and her needs as a new ball python owner.

It's just amazing to me how much energy has been wasted in this post and other posts, it's almost embarrassing.

Can't we agree to disagree, isn't there enough room in this community to allow for variation in every aspect of this hobby?

I'm just not getting it guys, I'm just not getting it.

I'm not the enemy!

Brian