Morph market.....

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Morph market is a platform, you can't blame them for how the users behave, its like being mad at bp.net because someone said something you didn't like. Don't you think your feelings would be better placed on the particular person?

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Originally Posted by JLC

Happens all the time. Doesn't make sense....but it definitely happens.

:snake: :taz: :weirdface :tears:

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I am mad that this even has to be mentioned.............. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Yes I am. One that just maybe could make a couple bucks for the owners whoever they are. When it came out my expectations were high. I said wow, maybe someone actually did it, but they didn't. Still, I wish them the best. My use of the site hasn't worked out so well. I'm retiring in a couple years. Maybe I will put something up to play with. If Morph Market works for people then by all means use the site. Like I said I have been wrong before. There have been three sites that have really been useful to me. This one, yours, and world of ball pythons. If you put all that together combined with a commerce aspect you would actually have something. Free advice from someone in the business for morph market. LOL. This is the internet though, and I may be some idiot talking smack or I may be someone else. I don't think I personally know anyone on here so my advice may be worth something or maybe not. I am not saying negative things about them to downgrade them. I want them to succeed. Other than this site I personally have zero internet exposure when it comes to snakes. I like to separate my work from my fun.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

I am VERY aware of Amazon's business model. I will let that go at that. As far as fauna, ebay, craigslist etc... What is the point of building something that has already been done? Just what is needed, another classifieds... If the Morph Market people are on here and want some free advice, help, maybe even a little investment they can PM me, or ignore me. At any rate its been a fun discussion. The board got a little dull today.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

GunBroker.com - as a seller I can block bidders or only permit my ads to be seen by buyers with a certain rating. As a buyer I can look at a seller's feedback and overall rating before bidding. As an example, this is mine: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...x?User=1114547


Exactly - the market for a classifieds site with safe vendors is untapped; otherwise there is nothing that differentiates MM from everyone else.

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I'm curious why there is so much mention of money, while I am sure John will want to make some money for his time and effort, it obviously isn't his primary concern. It sounds like you were expecting something entirely different from what the rest of the community was asking for. Personally I would never support a site with exclusivity, especially in this hobby where people come and go more rapidly than many of my other hobbies. I know John plans on having a feedback system of some type in the future though, but that's just going to basically be a convenient BIO. IMO that is the way to go. Even with that it has to be carefully done to hopefully avoid or minimize false ratings/comments.

how has morph market already been done? it offer specific search accuracy and bulk listing upload for starters among other numerous features never seen before in the hobby.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

I'm curious why there is so much mention of money, while I am sure John will want to make some money for his time and effort, it obviously isn't his primary concern.

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I'm a coder by trade - it pays the bills and has for longer than I care to think about. Maintaining an IT system isn't cheap, even if you don't add new functionality to a site you still have regular updates such as security upgrades. If you can't DIY then you pay for it, either through a web hosting service or hourly if you've contracted that out.

I handle the three front ends for my own business sites and pay to have someone else deal with the back end, mainly because admin and security work bores the crud out of me. I've been asked to do sites for other folks, but when the time comes to discuss payment all I hear is <insert cricket chirp sound here> so I don't bother any more.

So, if I assumed - perhaps wrongly - that the MM site was launched as a business venture with an eye toward offering buyers and sellers of exotic pets a better option than what is currently available, it's because that kind of work keeps me and my critters fed.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

I'm a coder by trade - it pays the bills and has for longer than I care to think about. Maintaining an IT system isn't cheap, even if you don't add new functionality to a site you still have regular updates such as security upgrades. If you can't DIY then you pay for it, either through a web hosting service or hourly if you've contracted that out.

I handle the three front ends for my own business sites and pay to have someone else deal with the back end, mainly because admin and security work bores the crud out of me. I've been asked to do sites for other folks, but when the time comes to discuss payment all I hear is <insert cricket chirp sound here> so I don't bother any more.

So, if I assumed - perhaps wrongly - that the MM site was launched as a business venture with an eye toward offering buyers and sellers of exotic pets a better option than what is currently available, it's because that kind of work keeps me and my critters fed.

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Exactly. I am in a very similar boat and of the same mind. Code == Work; Work==Money; !Money==!Work;

Hey guys, I always love to show up to a vigorous discussion on MorphMarket. ;) I think some good information have already been given, but I'd like to also clarify some misconceptions and give some insider info, not just for those people but for others reading through. I hope the admins won't delete this message but will allow me to provide answers to the questions raised about this community resource.

How's MorphMarket different?
> What is the point of building something that has already been done? ... otherwise there is nothing that differentiates MM from everyone else.

At the risk of being trolled I will respond to this. I think this is important to understand where we fit into the Ball Python community.
- The main thing is that it's completely custom software, designed to be genetics-aware, so that it's uniquely easy for both buyers and sellers to find and list their animals. This enables the many specific features unique to MorphMarket, surrounding the searching and listing aspects. Please consult this table which lists off a lot of these features. There may be some other sites which provide a few of these, I'm not going to quibble about that, but it's the entire package.
- As a result, we've become the largest inventory of Ball Pythons for sale on the web, for any site that attempts to cater to this audience. This is important because there have been some other sites with some decent functionality, however without a significant network of buyers and sellers the platform is worthless (FB and Craigslist may have more but not in any systematic, searchable format).
- The genetic calculator is arguably the best in the world in terms of accuracy and ease of use, and I think Matt Huck who helped me build it would agree (if it's not MM's then it's his -- there are a couple known corner-cases we don't handle yet).
- Due to the search functionality and ever growing set of ads/images, it will have or maybe does already have the largest collection of morph-indexed images of Ball Pythons. (Don't get me wrong, I still use WOBP also for seeing a couple of exemplary pictures of a specific morph combo so I am not saying it's the best for this.)
- For a nice overview of distinguishing features, watch our demo video.

Restricted to Big Breeders?
> They only show the big breeders

I don't know what basis there is for this statement. The only qualification to be in the "active breeders directory" is to have an ad listed presently. There are hundreds more "sellers" who have nothing listed, and hence are not listed there or on the MorphMap.

How we Make Money
> They probably make just enough from adds and memberships to keep the site running... it needs as many paying advertisers as possible.

This is incorrect. We have never asked for or received a dollar from anyone. Not for listing ads, and there have never been any ads on our site, paid or unpaid.

That being said, we have always been up front about that fact that some kind of premium plans will eventually be introduced. But this will only be for breeders, and even then our plan is to retain a free-level of service (unlike sites where you cannot list anything without paying). Right now we are fueled 100% on hobby passion and encouragement from our fans, and thankfully we get a lot of that.

Non-responses and Stale Ads
> A couple breeders never contacted me back. There is a bunch of stuff that is no longer available. One of the "breeders" tried to take me for a ride. So far for me the site is only good for a quick price check.

These are two legitimate challenges, that as others have pointed out affect us as well as any other classifieds-style site. We are aware of this and have taken measure to improve it, and have a bunch of other plans to improve it still more in the future. I have written on stale ads here: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...=1#post2441216

On responsiveness of breeders, rather than ban them we have taken a style of notifying/warning the user about the level of responsiveness they should expect from the person to whom they're inquiring (Facebook does this also regarding how fast people usually reply to messages). In a few cases we've gone as far as removing the option to inquire to them through our site (ie, email) because of repeated problems. In that case you have to contact them yourself (using contact info on their seller page). At the core, email is fundamentally unreliable. So it's something we're working on and as I said have specific plans for additional changes later this year.

In sum, these are challenges that all sites face but we are committed to being creative and going and beyond to find out how to best address them. It will just take some time.

Vetting Sellers
> If they want to stand out, they need to find a way to vet their retailers.

As just mentioned we do provide some light analytics on sellers, but in general vetting sellers is contrary to the other complaint here made about only allowing "big sellers". And we want to be open to big and small breeders.

Reviews are something we'd like tackle one day, and it's something everyone wants... until you have someone falsely accusing you in a public review. It's thorny. We're focused on our core product right now and will leave that to other places for now.

Going Local
> Don't know if I will because I get a lot of my stuff local.

We have all our sellers approximately geocoded so you can see them on a Google map and in the future search within a mile radius. This is only really useful if your city has a lot of sellers, so it will continue to improve as the market grows.


I know it's not the conscious intent, but some of the attitude here sounds like: "I want something unlike anything before, I want it perfect right from the start, and I want it for free." Choose two. We are less than 1 year old.

In the future please feel free to tag me, and I'm happy to jump in with some answers. But most people who want to see it improve send ideas and feedback directly. That being said, I'm glad to engage public discussion.

And per the original topic, we just added Boa Constrictors -- have over 400 listed from almost 50 sellers. You'll see more species added soon. Here's a screenshot:

http://i.imgur.com/CpXzgs0.jpg

Good explanation and additional clarification. I don't know about others but I love to get on MM and pow around. Keep up the good work.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by jplehmann

Hey guys, I always love to show up to a vigorous discussion on MorphMarket. ;) I think some good information have already been given, but I'd like to also clarify some misconceptions and give some insider info, not just for those people but for others reading through. I hope the admins won't delete this message but will allow me to provide answers to the questions raised about this community resource.

How's MorphMarket different?
> What is the point of building something that has already been done? ... otherwise there is nothing that differentiates MM from everyone else.

At the risk of being trolled I will respond to this. I think this is important to understand where we fit into the Ball Python community.
- The main thing is that it's completely custom software, designed to be genetics-aware, so that it's uniquely easy for both buyers and sellers to find and list their animals. This enables the many specific features unique to MorphMarket, surrounding the searching and listing aspects. Please consult this table which lists off a lot of these features. There may be some other sites which provide a few of these, I'm not going to quibble about that, but it's the entire package.
- As a result, we've become the largest inventory of Ball Pythons for sale on the web, for any site that attempts to cater to this audience. This is important because there have been some other sites with some decent functionality, however without a significant network of buyers and sellers the platform is worthless (FB and Craigslist may have more but not in any systematic, searchable format).
- The genetic calculator is arguably the best in the world in terms of accuracy and ease of use, and I think Matt Huck who helped me build it would agree (if it's not MM's then it's his -- there are a couple known corner-cases we don't handle yet).
- Due to the search functionality and ever growing set of ads/images, it will have or maybe does already have the largest collection of morph-indexed images of Ball Pythons. (Don't get me wrong, I still use WOBP also for seeing a couple of exemplary pictures of a specific morph combo so I am not saying it's the best for this.)
- For a nice overview of distinguishing features, watch our demo video.

Restricted to Big Breeders?
> They only show the big breeders

I don't know what basis there is for this statement. The only qualification to be in the "active breeders directory" is to have an ad listed presently. There are hundreds more "sellers" who have nothing listed, and hence are not listed there or on the MorphMap.

How we Make Money
> They probably make just enough from adds and memberships to keep the site running... it needs as many paying advertisers as possible.

This is incorrect. We have never asked for or received a dollar from anyone. Not for listing ads, and there have never been any ads on our site, paid or unpaid.

That being said, we have always been up front about that fact that some kind of premium plans will eventually be introduced. But this will only be for breeders, and even then our plan is to retain a free-level of service (unlike sites where you cannot list anything without paying). Right now we are fueled 100% on hobby passion and encouragement from our fans, and thankfully we get a lot of that.

Non-responses and Stale Ads
> A couple breeders never contacted me back. There is a bunch of stuff that is no longer available. One of the "breeders" tried to take me for a ride. So far for me the site is only good for a quick price check.

These are two legitimate challenges, that as others have pointed out affect us as well as any other classifieds-style site. We are aware of this and have taken measure to improve it, and have a bunch of other plans to improve it still more in the future. I have written on stale ads here: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...=1#post2441216

On responsiveness of breeders, rather than ban them we have taken a style of notifying/warning the user about the level of responsiveness they should expect from the person to whom they're inquiring (Facebook does this also regarding how fast people usually reply to messages). In a few cases we've gone as far as removing the option to inquire to them through our site (ie, email) because of repeated problems. In that case you have to contact them yourself (using contact info on their seller page). At the core, email is fundamentally unreliable. So it's something we're working on and as I said have specific plans for additional changes later this year.

In sum, these are challenges that all sites face but we are committed to being creative and going and beyond to find out how to best address them. It will just take some time.

Vetting Sellers
> If they want to stand out, they need to find a way to vet their retailers.

As just mentioned we do provide some light analytics on sellers, but in general vetting sellers is contrary to the other complaint here made about only allowing "big sellers". And we want to be open to big and small breeders.

Reviews are something we'd like tackle one day, and it's something everyone wants... until you have someone falsely accusing you in a public review. It's thorny. We're focused on our core product right now and will leave that to other places for now.

Going Local
> Don't know if I will because I get a lot of my stuff local.

We have all our sellers approximately geocoded so you can see them on a Google map and in the future search within a mile radius. This is only really useful if your city has a lot of sellers, so it will continue to improve as the market grows.


I know it's not the conscious intent, but some of the attitude here sounds like: "I want something unlike anything before, I want it perfect right from the start, and I want it for free." Choose two. We are less than 1 year old.

In the future please feel free to tag me, and I'm happy to jump in with some answers. But most people who want to see it improve send ideas and feedback directly. That being said, I'm glad to engage public discussion.

And per the original topic, we just added Boa Constrictors -- have over 400 listed from almost 50 sellers. You'll see more species added soon. Here's a screenshot:

http://i.imgur.com/CpXzgs0.jpg

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Very well written and I will have to say commendable. Putting that much effort into something for free is beyond my scope of comprehension. I have been in the IT business for a long time and never have once done something for free. My first piece of work was on a Fortran console so that should give you an idea on how far back I go. My partners would not take it well if I started giving my stuff away for free.


Free explains many things and I now understand why so many people jumped so quickly to your defence. You do absolutely have the best localized search engine. Genetics calculators as far as ball pythons go are relatively simple affairs and I don't understand why people make such a big deal about them. The hard part in my opinion is getting the actual pictures and descriptions to go along with the calculations.


I do not understand the comment about you only having large breeders either. You definitely have some smaller ones. There are a few people on this site that are not huge that have product on your site. In that vein, I personally consider those people vetted. Even the ones I disagree with sometimes, I wouldn't think twice about buying from. There are many ways to vet a seller, but you are going to have to pick the most cost effective one. I absolutely did not realize how much mistrust and how much scamming was going on the snake side of the business until I started to get semi-serious about what I was doing and started purchasing higher dollar animals. Seller does not trust buyer, buyer does not trust seller. Doing a simple transaction is turned into a time consuming mess. The guy that provides even a partial solution to this problem is a winner and the industry as a whole would benefit. I have some ideas. I hope you beat me to it.


Now I know dealing with breeders in the industry has to be a little like herding cats, especially some of the older guys, but since you are providing a free service it shouldn't be too much sweat off their backs to log in at least once a weak and verify that their product is still for sale. The ones I found that had unavailable stuff were actually very reputable guys. Their own sites were out of date too. Sites like yours will change the business model for everyone. They will have to have a solid internet experience or they will gradually be passed by simply because it is easier to go through someone else.


The good news, at least for me, is my assistant finally managed to find something I needed through your site and it looks like the transaction is going to go through. Took them two days to respond, but it is progress.


Once again, I now understand what is going on and I commend your efforts. Keep it up and I hope it pays off for you in some way. There is a lot of good coding talent in Dallas. At least there was when I worked out of there.


For those of you who are using this guys hard work, I hope you are considering doing something for him. He deserves it.

I like Morphmarket. Not in the market for a Boa, but I found my Pied boy through the site - and then contacted the seller directly, rather than going through the site, I'll admit. I already had another snake that I'd paid for from the same seller, and they didn't have the pied on their website, but he was still available so he got added to my purchase.

As a buyer - I love morph market!!!

I check MM almost daily. I find the user interface to be lovely and intuitive. I find myself getting frustrated browsing kingsnake and fauna and rarely even bother looking there.

I like that boas have been added. I would be excited to see other herpstat there too if that's what the future has in store.

I like the promise Morph Market is showing. If you guys are still going strong when my boa girls get to breeding (another 4 years best case scenario), I'll probably make an account. :) Haven't gotten around to really digging into the website, but this thread makes me want to!