Thoughts on no bite/feeding posts?

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Originally Posted by Hammertime1977

I don't need a snake that is in excess of those numbers, even being a retired fighter 6'2 and 230 pounds of the good stuff...I have no desire to handle a snake larger than a Ball Python. I have nothing to prove to anyone.

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Why would you assume anyone who has big snakes has something to prove? Couldn't be that they they love them for the animal they are, smart, inquisitive beautiful creatures. They have to be trying to show how big and bad they are by the animal they choose to keep? Large snake keepers come in all shapes and sizes, not everyone that keeps them has napoleon syndrome.

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Originally Posted by Rob

Why would you assume anyone who has big snakes has something to prove? Couldn't be that they they love them for the animal they are, smart, inquisitive beautiful creatures. They have to be trying to show how big and bad they are by the animal they choose to keep? Large snake keepers come in all shapes and sizes, not everyone that keeps them has napoleon syndrome.

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Somehow missed that part/post. I have to say ball pythons just do not compare in intelligence and presence to some of the larger species. I love my ball pythons certainly, but there's much more out there for interaction.

I don't think of "Don't post feeding or bite pictures" as "hiding something". I don't post photos of my dog eating a raw turkey back. I never posted a photo of me killing a chicken that I would eat, nor a goat, nor butchering a cow... it's just not something I think to do because I don't think it's something people want to see.

Presenting a better image is important if we want to turn the tide that is running right now against owning reptiles. HSUS/PETA have quite effectively sent a tsunami against us and we're barely dog paddling with our heads above water. We are NOT a big, rich, powerful hobby/industry and therefor the elected officials have ZERO reason to vote on our side. The only plus we do have available is public opinion.

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And the starting of having to put snakes on a million dollar home owners insurance policy is definitely scary.

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This is already required for a lot of dog breeds, depending on the insurance company. It sounds scary but it really doesn't cost much. It's also not legislation. . .well, OK, it could be, some municipalities require it. It's mostly just pure free market---if you don't like it find a different insurance company.

This is the kind of quality content I look for on this site :D

Good job Marissa for bringing the serious topics into the light. In many ways I feel that the Reptile hobby is hit harder than Gun Ownership when it comes to taking away our liberties in this regard.

On the original topic, I definitely agree that this is something that should be common sense. Just because we aren't doing something wrong doesn't mean we have to advertise it for the whole world to see on a public forum where opinions can be made arbitrarily and not argued/defended.

Rather than post pics of our bites, save them for use when a friend asks us what a bite looks like.

Rather than post a feeding video where someone could stumble across it and get their butts hurt, feed when friends who are genuinely interested in the hobby are visiting the snake room.

Rather than show the whole world that we can handle hots freehand, save it for a scholarly workshop or for "private showings" of our collections.

Part of being a responsible hobbyist of any kind is realizing the stigma/image that our hobby faces, and doing our best to educate people on the true image that our hobby should show. This means there are parts that we advocate 1000% and show to everybody we possibly can; this also means that there are aspects that we don't publicize unless it's to the right people in the right circumstances. It's not being a push-over, and it's not hiding who we are as reptile keepers; it's about knowing how to win our battles and how to properly argue for our rights.

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Originally Posted by Rob

Why would you assume anyone who has big snakes has something to prove? Couldn't be that they they love them for the animal they are, smart, inquisitive beautiful creatures. They have to be trying to show how big and bad they are by the animal they choose to keep? Large snake keepers come in all shapes and sizes, not everyone that keeps them has napoleon syndrome.

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Nothing like that.

Locally here, there was in incident where a snake got out of it's cage and killed 2 kids. Once that story hit...instant stigma and all of the conservatives wanted to ban snakes all together.

There are good owners, which I have to assume all of us are. Why would you come here seeking advice or looking to help others that have been through what you went through if you didn't care about your pets?

But there are bad owners that get a kick out of doing things others wouldn't do.

I don't think you have 1 less tooth for every foot your snake is over 6 feet or anything. That's just a stereotype that is only accurate 60% of the time :p (Jokes)

I can honestly say I don't totally disagree with my city's ban on anything with venom and restricting snakes to a maximum of 3 meters and lizards to a maximum of 2 meters.

Also keep in mind, they can't just walk into your house and look around.

You don't have to let anyone into your house unless a judge has signed off on a warrant. When the police came around at my request when my ex wife was being a douche, I spoke with them in my driveway despite their constant request to go inside. If you let them in voluntarily, they can use whatever they observe against you.

I wouldn't mind a Boa, but I have 2 young kids and from what I have been told...they can be a bit on the bitey side.

I fully accept that if I approach my Ball Python when it's scared or hungry, I'm going to get bit. I fully accept that and take full responsibility for it. I actually keep Q-Tips and Listerine close just in case. I hoe it doesn't happen, but I understand that if it happens...it's my fault and not the fault of the snake. Not sure I would have that same confidence with a Boa...but give me time :)

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Just because we aren't doing something wrong doesn't mean we have to advertise it for the whole world to see on a public forum

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That's not quite what I meant; I do think extreme discretion is needed about when and where to share. But I also think the discussion should be open and honest. Let's say. . .if every snake feeding video on youtube is of some jerk feeding puppies to their snake or some young fools laughing and joking about a rat screaming while being constricted. . .then that's what people are going to think every snake owner does. But a normal person feeding their normal snake a normal meal of a normal f/t rat, like it ain't no thing, just like they're feeding a can of meat to the cat. . .maybe there should be more of that. Less sensationalism, more routine stuff.

And of course, if any reaction to discussion of feeding or bites is "SHHH, WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THAT", people are gonna start making things up. So, be discreet but not secretive, I guess is what I'm saying.

^^Yeah that's exactly what I meant

It's just a matter of how the videos are perceived, and frankly on the internet there isn't much we can do to dictate how they will be taken. I would think it's better to show that side in person, where you have a "captive audience" who will be sure to get their questions answered. On the forum its too easy for a person to see a feeding video, start feeling uncomfortable, and just leave without getting the "full story" of how the video relates to the hobby.

To bring this back up to the top, since my oldest Savu nailed me again over the weekend... IMO posting gory bite pictures is a bad idea. OTOH posting that bites do happen, especially with certain species, should be discussed so that people know what they are getting into before bringing a critter home.

Posting that neonates are often nippy/defensive along with methods to chill them out should be discussed. Posting about hook training your large/foody snakes to help avoid a food-response bite should be discussed. Posting about how to get out of a food response bite when it happens definitely should be discussed so people learn how not to make matters worse.

BUT

How do you hold these discussions without mentioning that snakes bite?

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Originally Posted by bcr229

How do you hold these discussions without mentioning that snakes bite?

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By all means, everything you said I agree with, but when the intent is to entertain rather than educate I believe it works contrary to our goal as keepers which I think most would agree is to be able to keep our animals without harassment.