Interesting read about boa & python feeding.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

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And Reinz, assuming at minimum a 2-3 week period is needed for a boa or python or completely go through the "feeding cycle", I would bet 90% of the people who own boas or pythons as a whole do overfeed. I know i'm guilty of it myself as well.

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Ever since my adult Boas have been in my care, feeding is monthly, as well as my adult BP and Coastal Carpet.

Now my three younger Carpets that are visually growing, they feed every 2-3 weeks.

I thought the 'boa rant' was also written by Warren, thank you for posting it. I see it's by some random person that got their 'facts' from googleling boa images and old forum posts? LOL While the basic principle behind the post is commendable (providing the best, largest enriching environment we can) it's poorly researched and does not have factual information.

Well the "meat and potatoes" of the post and why I posted it was because of the part with Warren Booth and snake feedings. I pulled it off Tumblr as that was the first link that came up for me on search. I originally got just the Warren Booth part off a phone text thing I read. As for the rant part, that's a moot point as it wasn't written by Warren Booth, just some yahoo with opinions which I personally don't agree with other than the boas will climb if given the opportunity.

@ AbsoluteApril. Not sure if the "poorly researched and does not have factual information" part was referring to me or not. If not, then no need to read further. If it is, I posted this as research that was done by Todd Costoe, Steven Secor and Warren Booth. I wasn't posting as my personal knowledge as honestly didn't know that boids and pythons actually went through these physical changes after feeding. I'm sure if you wanted to dig deeper, you could probably find the research papers by said guys but I didn't dig that deep.

Again I just pulled this off Tumblr as it came up on my search engine after I read it off a text message. Heck I don't even know what Tumblr is lol. The only thing I use is Facebook and because most of the reptile forum sites everyone has switched to facebook for them. I think a lot are missing the point of the post about the feeding and reading the stuff that doesn't matter which honestly I didn't even notice until it was brought up lol.

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Originally Posted by Reinz

Ever since my adult Boas have been in my care, feeding is monthly, as well as my adult BP and Coastal Carpet.

Now my three younger Carpets that are visually growing, they feed every 2-3 weeks.

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Yeah, Rosey isn't too keen on monthly feedings lol. She makes it well known when she is hungry. And the more I look and read about carpets, it makes me want one. I was eyeballing some of those Jungle Carpets that Nick Mutton has. Might have to get one of those instead of a GTP next :P Plus he lives in Spokane which is only about a 4 hour drive from me. Decisions decisions :D

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

@ AbsoluteApril. Not sure if the "poorly researched and does not have factual information" part was referring to me or not.

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What? No, of course not! Sorry if my statement wasn't clear, I was directly speaking about the "boa rant" that was screenshot and written by Mark Scherz, his comments about how boas need UV and tall aboreal caging due to google image search of 'wild boa constrictors' showing them in trees.

I total agree with the statements Warren said and know (some) about the changes a snake's body goes through when digesting. Their organs swell and it's very taxing.

There's several studies you can look up that cover the digestion process of a variety of species. Hit up sci-hub and search python digestion or whatever you are after, tons of info out there. It's a big process. Currently only my hognose is fed weekly, the younger snakes are fed every two weeks and my adults every three weeks.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Yeah, Rosey isn't too keen on monthly feedings lol. She makes it well known when she is hungry. And the more I look and read about carpets, it makes me want one. I was eyeballing some of those Jungle Carpets that Nick Mutton has. Might have to get one of those instead of a GTP next :P Plus he lives in Spokane which is only about a 4 hour drive from me. Decisions decisions :D

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One thing I left out, I go against the grain on feeding size compared to most folks here. I feed large meals which allow me to go longer in between. With my BP, this assures success each time. It doesn't play a role in success of the Boas or Carpets, but helps cut down on the begging for more rats time frame. In particular, it seemed to have cured my Male Carpet of cage/food aggression as well.

For example, Elenore, my female(?) BI, appears to be similar in size to your Rosey, based on your descriptions. I feed Elenore a jumbo rat monthly. When I first got her it was two mediums every 2 weeks, but she was Always hungry. Then I moved to a large rat. It will do fairly ok, but the Jumbo just seems to satisfy and last longer. So far, no weight gain.

As far as you thinking about a Jungle Carpet, they are really cool snakes, great to display as well! As much as you handle and interact with your snakes, I believe a Jungle is a better choice than a GTP. While I do admit that a GTP has been on my brain for quite a while. But I am overly pleased that I got the Jungle first!


Esmarelda, Jungle Carpethttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...56793d2331.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...e2ec544ebc.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...315680089a.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...16ad890339.jpg

Ohhh I like Esmarelda.

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

What? No, of course not! Sorry if my statement wasn't clear, I was directly speaking about the "boa rant" that was screenshot and written by Mark Scherz, his comments about how boas need UV and tall aboreal caging due to google image search of 'wild boa constrictors' showing them in trees.

I total agree with the statements Warren said and know (some) about the changes a snake's body goes through when digesting. Their organs swell and it's very taxing.

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Lol ok. Guess I read it wrong or I was half asleep as it was late. I didn't even bothering reading anything other than the Warren Booth part :)

It's amazing how far some of these posts go. I think I responded with this to a friend back in Northern Ireland. It has since traveled around the world it appears.

So, let me clarify a few things. This feeding regime does not apply to colubrids (so your corns, kings, rats, hognose, etc) feed differently. They are weekly, and sometimes sooner, feeders. Those that undergo organ remodeling are the pythons, boas, and pitvipers. Do they all do it? We are not sure. The initial work was carried out on Burmese pythons (note this is work by Stephen Secor and Todd Castoe. While Todd is a good friend of mine, I am not involved in it). What has been shown is that remarkable remodeling occurs within four hours of feeding (heart, liver,kidneys, intestines, increasing in size dramatically; blood plasma levels spiking). This likely puts enormous physiological stress on the organs.

While visiting Castoe several weeks ago, we chatted more about this to gauge opinion whether it is better to remain in that remodeled state and feed frequently, or whether rest is needed. There are two sides to the argument. One is that is is physiologically stressful to remodel your organs and thus keeping them remodeled might put less stress on the animal overall. The second is that the snake is under such physiological stress while remodel that remaining in this condition long term is detrimental. What we can see from the hobby is that there are actually very few "old" snakes in captivity. Does this reflect poor care outside of feeding, or is it a result of overfeeding and thus physiological stress. I cannot see it being the former as not everyone keeps their animals poorly.

We will always have exceptions. I hear it from people "I feed my snake every 5 days and its 15 years old". That is perfectly fine. My grandmother also fed her black Labrador a 200g bar of Cadbury's Chocolate every Friday night and that animal lived till it was 16. And chocolate is poisonous to dogs. We hear people that smoked and drank all their lives living past 100. There are exceptions to the rule.

How I feed my animals is simple. As adults, I feed males every 3-4 weeks on an appropriate sized meal. Females get fed every 3. Juveniles are fed every 2 weeks, and I feed babies every 10 days. I stop feeding my adults between November and February every year. I then feed every 2 weeks for a period of 6 to 8 weeks prior to breeding, and then back to the standard feeding. I have been breeding boas for 20 years and produce 3 to 7 litters a year. So not that many, but they are very healthy litters with few to zero slugs.

Am I telling all of you to feed the same way. No. Feed how you like to feed. It is your animal and only you can decide what you feel is healthy and what is not. My animals (~100 boas) have proven to thrive on this feeding schedule.

Two other things and I will leave the topic. 1) We never see fat boas in the wild. Those that I have caught are muscular. Shaped like a loaf of breed (squared sides). Males are always lean. 2) We know that boas undergo feast and famine feeding. Look at insular boas. These often feed only for 2 to 3 months a year on migratory birds, then starve the rest. Mainland animals certainly undergo the same, but less extreme.

In regards to how people keep their boas. I personally keep all of my babies and yearlings in v15 and V18 tubs. I then move them to V35s, the V70s. The males (mine are all Central American), remain in V35s all of their lives. Mine are all around 3ft long and phenomenal breeders. My females are in V70s and 4ft Reptilebasic cages. I am planning to switch these to ARS 8000 series cages this year. This season I have three females gravid. One is 15, one is 9, and the other is a young one at 5 (her first season). I also can tell you that some boas love having tall cages. Insular boas in general are small, males very small. These thrive in tall cages with branches, as in the wild they are very arboreal. Not like a Corallus, but will spend a lot of time in the trees (because they eat lizards, birds, an arboreal rodents). I have a male Costa Rican T+ boa in my office at the University and he is in a Zoomed arboreal cage. He is rarely on the ground. My other CA males and females at home are all in racks, and all thrive. Do they need arboreal cages to thrive... no. Will they use branches and spend time in them if offered, most will. Colombians are a different matter. They are heavier bodies and primarily terrestrial. The person posting in that tumbler thread seemed a little extreme and failed to differentiate locality, insularity, and species. All have important implications.

Warren