Het PieBald - Markings?

Sorry fot this bump..


But I wanna hear your comment on this..

I have a 100% het pair from a well known english breeder, he told me that all the hatchlings had this tail mark. A sort of ringer sign.
Is this just a sign of possible ringer animals (ringer + het. piebald) or can it be a sign typical for his piebald hatchlings?

Thx!

http://forum.dierenparadijs.be/uploa...1822_thumb.jpg

hard to say for sure, i know that normals have produce ringers too. and some het pieds have produced ringers also. i just focus on them being 100% hets and not worry about markers, 100% is a 100% and 50% is 50% markers or not. it is cool to have hets that are ringers too, a bonus!


vaughn

A good number of pieds tend to consistently produce ringer offspring. Although it is uncommon for het pieds to produce them.

Godd luck with your pair!

-adam

One of the few things I've learned along my admittedly short road of ball python ownership is this...nothing is ever for certain....genetics are always to some degree a crap shoot and if you want a shortcut...buy a map! LOL

For us, the best way to a visible morph will always be to buy from a highly reputable breeder that provides excellent documentation. After that it's up to the snakes, the odds and a fair bit of finger crossing.


~~Jo~~

Ok thanks!

"A good number of pieds tend to consistently produce ringer offspring. Although it is uncommon for het pieds to produce them."

Adam, are you saying that 100% het pied X normal produces ringers at less than half the rate of homozygous pied X normal? Do you have a genetic theory as to why that would happen?

I would think that if het pieds tended to be ringers it wouldn't mater if it was a het pied from a het X normal or a het pied from a homozygous pied X normal. Of course het pied X normal only produces on average 50% hets so whatever the percentage of het pieds that are ringers even if it stayed the same you would only expect half as many from het X normal as homozygous X normal.

We are talking about male homozygous pied here, right? I could see maybe the egg producing environment in a homozygous pied female being different than a heterozygous one. But if we are talking about crosses with normal females then the male's contribution should be almost entirely genetic (maybe the health of the sperm could have some effect).

Or are you talking about heterozygous pied females tending to produce more than twice as many ringer hets when bred to homozygous males than when bred to heterozygous males? If that's the case, maybe some of the ringers are really low white homozygous pieds. I’ve seen for a for sure just het pied that looked like a low white one (messed up dorsal and all) so maybe the other extreme could happen where some homozygous pieds look like hets. Or you could argue that a 2nd ringer gene is more likely in a homozygous pied than a heterozygous one I suppose.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Adam, are you saying that 100% het pied X normal produces ringers at less than half the rate of homozygous pied X normal? Do you have a genetic theory as to why that would happen?

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If he didnt have a theory he would not of posted it ..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

I would think that

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Maybe you do this to much!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

"A good number of pieds tend to consistently produce ringer offspring. Although it is uncommon for het pieds to produce them."

Adam, are you saying that 100% het pied X normal produces ringers at less than half the rate of homozygous pied X normal? Do you have a genetic theory as to why that would happen?

I would think that if het pieds tended to be ringers it wouldn't mater if it was a het pied from a het X normal or a het pied from a homozygous pied X normal. Of course het pied X normal only produces on average 50% hets so whatever the percentage of het pieds that are ringers even if it stayed the same you would only expect half as many from het X normal as homozygous X normal.

We are talking about male homozygous pied here, right? I could see maybe the egg producing environment in a homozygous pied female being different than a heterozygous one. But if we are talking about crosses with normal females then the male's contribution should be almost entirely genetic (maybe the health of the sperm could have some effect).

Or are you talking about heterozygous pied females tending to produce more than twice as many ringer hets when bred to homozygous males than when bred to heterozygous males? If that's the case, maybe some of the ringers are really low white homozygous pieds. I’ve seen for a for sure just het pied that looked like a low white one (messed up dorsal and all) so maybe the other extreme could happen where some homozygous pieds look like hets. Or you could argue that a 2nd ringer gene is more likely in a homozygous pied than a heterozygous one I suppose.

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Randy, I'm saying ...

"A good number of pieds tend to consistently produce ringer offspring.
Although it is uncommon for het pieds to produce them."

;)

-adam

JASBALLS, there would be nothing wrong with Adam posting an observation that pieds tend to throw a disproportionately high rate of ringers without having a theory as to why. If you don't want to think about why either that is your prerogative.

Adam, your reply isn't helpful. I think your observations of a high rates of ringered het pieds from homozygous pieds is important and relevant to the piebald het marker discussion (RDR calls the marker a ringer belly). As I pointed out it might make a difference if we are talking about Pied male X normal female, Pied male X het pied female, or even the unlikely combination of normal for pied or het pied male X pied female. Another important question is whether the higher rate of ringers from homozygous pieds exceeds the higher rate of het pieds compared to breedings with only het pieds or het X normal. I've read enough of your posts to be confident in my presumption that you will understand each of these concepts and could contribute useful information if you wanted to. Heck, I even suspect JASBALLS could start thinking about this and help us figure it out.

Captain Randy,

You wouldn't actually want me to be helpful would you Randy? I mean, you're the one that said I am disingenuous? Why would I want to share what I know with you? So that you can question my motives some more?

LMAO ... funny.

-adam