Is live feeding really that dangerous?

Cats are very barely domesticated. As someone who regularly deals with feral cats, I can vouch that 'domesticated' is not entirely accurate for them.

My corn snakes have been in captivity for many-many generations. I've had some be so lazy about their food that feeding live would be a terrible idea. I'm also breeding solely for temperament in one of my lines... effectively working to 'domesticate' them the way those foxes were. So... *shrugs*

On another point:

I have fed my corns nothing but f/t. I have not had a single issue with constipation, ever. As long as they have constant access to clean water, the amount of moisture lost to freezing is minimal and easily countered by a couple seconds of drinking.

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Originally Posted by LostWingsInTime

I don't like feeding f/t rats, they lose a lot of moisture when your thawing and warming them up, which can lead to some constipation issues, as well as their growth seems to do better with non frozen, but I would never put a live rat with my snakes. I kill the rat right before giving it to them and then nudge it around a bit with the snake hook to make it a bit more lively. Also neither seem particularly interested in thawed. The nice thing is, if the don't eat the rat after it's been killed, you can freeze and use it next week if your ok with the occasional f/t or a different snake is more opening to eating f/t . (Personally I recommend vacuumed sealed)

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I feed my f/t dripping wet, I'd be willing to bet that the snakes get a considerably higher amount of hydration this way than what comes from a live rodent.

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Originally Posted by Sonny1318

Dogs and cats are and have been domesticated for quite sometime. Well I might see you first point, I'm not sure about how you backed it up. Peace

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I've got to agree that it's not really 'natural'. I only feed live because mine will starve herself to the point of losing weight refusing f/t. Maybe other people have snakes that are better hunters than mine, but if I weren't monitoring and ready to put a pair of tongs in the prey's mouth, my snake would have had a lot of bite injuries by now. I honestly feel like she would have been a ftt in the wild :cool:

I agree with you about dogs, but cats are pretty genetically similar to their non-domesticated counterparts (wild cats living on the fringes of human society in areas of Egypt). There was a NatGeo documentary about it that you can probably find on youtube or something... I feel like their prey drive is still hardwired in enough that you could probably argue it would be more 'natural' for them to hunt. Not wanting to start an argument or anything, I just thought it was interesting lol.

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Originally Posted by LostWingsInTime

http://www.netvet.co.uk/snakes/constipation.htm over food
The growth was more just an opinion I remember getting from a quite a few different people on different forms when I was first researching before I got mine.

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That's essentially a blog without citing any research or even listing an author of the article. Any other supporting evidence?

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Originally Posted by Spiritserpents

Cats are very barely domesticated. As someone who regularly deals with feral cats, I can vouch that 'domesticated' is not entirely accurate for them.

My corn snakes have been in captivity for many-many generations. I've had some be so lazy about their food that feeding live would be a terrible idea. I'm also breeding solely for temperament in one of my lines... effectively working to 'domesticate' them the way those foxes were. So... *shrugs*

On another point:

I have fed my corns nothing but f/t. I have not had a single issue with constipation, ever. As long as they have constant access to clean water, the amount of moisture lost to freezing is minimal and easily countered by a couple seconds of drinking.

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lol This happened while I was writing my other comment but I couldn't resist replying.

Ha... As someone who keeps garters, which are known for their frequent bowel movements and messiness, I can honestly say I've never once had an issue with constipation from f/t mice. It takes about a day maybe two tops for it to completely go through their systems.

I wish you luck with your temperament experiment, but I'm honestly in doubt as to whether snakes have the proper mental hardwiring for true 'domestication'. Usually domestication involves a component of social dependence on humans for food or shelter, and I just don't know if I think snakes
have the capability to truly connect those things with us. I think you could definitely breed for bolder/shyer/calmer/whatever snakes, but I'm not sure if it would really qualify as domestication in the true sense of it since they can't really be 'social' with humans. (Not saying they can't interact, but I don't believe they have the capability to think of things that aren't in their immediate environment; like I honestly believe I cease to exist to my snakes once I leave the room)

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

That's essentially a blog without citing any research or even listing an author of the article. Any other supporting evidence?

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It's been established that prolonged freezing and proper thawing reduce moisture in food items. This is done via sublimation and evaporation.

What has never been established is that this results in constipation.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

It's been established that prolonged freezing and proper thawing reduce moisture in food items. This is done via sublimation and evaporation.

What has never been established is that this results in constipation.

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Thanks, Skip. That's what I was getting at.

I thaw and heat my rats in water anyway, which I know a lot of other people do, so the whole moisture loss issue seems nil. I have seen a lot of anecdata from breeders regarding snakes gaining more on live than frozen, but I think it all balances out in the end. I feel over all body tone and condition is much more important than numbers in weight.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

That's essentially a blog without citing any research or even listing an author of the article. Any other supporting evidence?

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And where is the source list for every answer you've ever given? This is not even an argument on if f/t or fresh is better, they want to know if live is bad. My answer was a technicality that instead of live that can lead to injury, feed fresh dead. And then I continued to explain my own reasons as to why I personally don't give f/t as they're looking to take their animals off of it, none of which include giving a snake a live rat to be strangled alive to fill the idea that the animal needs to do so for some gratification to an instinct or because it's more 'natural'. Giving them live puts your animals life in danger. If they don't like thawed, give them fresh dead and poke at it. But giving them live is just reckless in my opinion.

I'm done with this and will not be responding to this thread again.

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Originally Posted by LostWingsInTime

And where is the source list for every answer you've ever given? This is not even an argument on if f/t or fresh is better, they want to know if live is bad. My answer was a technicality that instead of live that can lead to injury, feed fresh dead. And then I continued to explain my own reasons as to why I personally don't give f/t as they're looking to take their animals off of it, none of which include giving a snake a live rat to be strangled alive to fill the idea that the animal needs to do so for some gratification to an instinct or because it's more 'natural'. Giving them live puts your animals life in danger. If they don't like thawed, give them fresh dead and poke at it. But giving them live is just reckless in my opinion.

I'm done with this and will not be responding to this thread again.

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Hold on a second there. I'm here to learn, just like everyone else. If you knew about something that tied feeding f/t food to constipation, I was hoping to learn from you as someone who feeds mostly f/t myself - nothing more, nothing less. If you're trying to read more into my post, I promise you I don't have nearly that many layers. :P

:grouphug: