ball python sight and hearing.

my point is religion is B.S.
the bible is b.s.
people need to stop going to fairy tails to explain away everything.
and recycled adapted.. same thing.
its the same story used over and over with a change of cast.
i was asking about ball pythons.. i in no way wanted this to turn into a debate about whos conception was right or wrong about god... like i said... back to the damn point.. PYTHONS ROCK!

Well, we are all alowed to have our differnt opinions. :) and im glad

Even tho i dissgree with alot of the stuff that has been said on this thread.

Im a firm believer in christ, i dont think we humans evolved from apes.

In the bible it says, god created man and then the animals so how could we evolve from apes if we were created first ??But its ok, i know some of you are not going to belive me since some of you have stated that you are satanist and think jesus and or religion is B.S.

If you look it up in the bible it makes alot of sense

Sorry, i think i made this thread go WAAAY too too off topic. I apologize

Whoa, we really need to not get into religious discussions on this board. This needs to stop.

I agree gen, thats what I was trying to say a few posts ago. So about ball pythons and thier hearing/sight abilities: Kitty definently knew when my ex boyfriends band was practicing, they were really loudn and Kitty's cage was on the floor across the hall at the time, so he felt those vibrations. After a couple time of that I started taking him out for his handling sessions during practice. His sight is not great, as with all balls, but the othre senses he has more than make up for that :)

I think it's great that we have diverse religious views here, and I enjoy a good discussion on the topic as much as anyone, but I don't think this is the place for it.

What ticking keg of dynamite, sir?

Hehe - thank you Marla for your earlier clarification of my post. Essentially yes - the realm of sensory experience and how that shapes consciousness and how we experience the world around us and all that other phenomonological stuff (i'd never be able to run for office dropping that many damn syllables) is for humans, unique to humans. There is no judgement inherent in that. It just is. Like crawfish or salamanders who have evolved over time in deep caves to the point they have only vestigal eyes or no sight at all and whose entire existence doesnt even touch on the senses of sight - yet their experience is to them quite complete - and anything "more" beyond that simply inconceivable.

It is very easy for us to can everything in terms of our 5 senses, it is after all what we are used to and nearly the sum total of all we know both as individuals and a species - and again all too easy for us to imagine that their experiences must be similar. This doesnt even begin to address functions of consciousness and sentience and cerebral functions (hell maybe even as shaped by sensory input). This stuff, frankly fascinates me and I as well want to know whether there are more cones than rods in snakes eyes, whether movement or color is more readily perceived etc, how their heat-sensing pits fit in with eyesight and olfactory organs i tracking a target, how this is "painted" in the mind of the snake etc. But I fully realize it is all conjecture and I am liable to impress my notions of perception into their physiology like an ungainly godlike cookie-cutter. Being fascinated by these creatures to such an extent this is even possible however is not difficult - they are far too entrancing and so seemingly enigmatic.


I'll walk carefully around the rest of that debate adding only that i think science is extremenly important as are the ideals of empricism (ie empirical science) in understanding our universe in a functional way.

Empiricism doesn't need to concern itself with spirituality nor spirituality with empiricism - opposite ends of the spectrum i'd expect could coexist peacefully.

Otherwise it is like judging a mathematical formula (a2+b2=c2) based on the color of the ink and the shape of the 2's (horrid horrid horrid analogy i know i know the phone wont stop ringing so I keep derailing my own train of thought).

I heartily admit to being an animal. :D
No one really knows how the heck we got here. That much is true. There are all sorts of theories out there, and of course everyone knows in their heart that they, themself, knows the truth... right? :)
I think this has gotten to be an interesting little thread; but I would fear that knowing each others' religious beliefs, could lead to some hard feelings later on that could potentially lead to advice not being heeded, and ball pythons suffering because of it. I really hope that doesn't happen.


To answer your original post, Kontron. I know that Bps cannot hear just like we do, they have no ears. I think that their little snakelike bodies gave up on the ear's evolution in favor of developing their sense of taste and heat-sensing capabilities.
What do I think goes on in their little reptilian brains? Well, here's my theory. Imagine being able to simply exist. Not needing to be anywhere at any set time. Not worrying what people thought of you. Not needing to wear clothes. Sure, a prey item might walk by, and you might want to eat it. And you may have to move around the tank until you get that proper temp gradient to digest that rat. But you;d do these things without real thought. Without having feelings.
Not having any thoughts toward any kind of morality or obligation. Not even any sense of good and evil! This would be the blissful life of the snake; an existance of simply existing.
(gee that sounded a bit poetic, huh?) :D

I know that I started another reply, but this is a different thought. I read a quote somewhere about why a person hated snakes. He said that the snake was this useless thing that simply existed and devoured meaningful, active life (as in, its rodential prey.) The mouse was seen as a bustling, thriving creature which had a life full of meaning; while the snake basically took away that meaning and fed off of it to nourish its own meaningless existance.
I think this quote was completely biased against snakes. The whole reason they developed into rodent-killers was to fill a niche in which they keep the rodent population down and contribute to the cycle of life. They do this without thinking, in my opinion. So I guess that to me, they really do not have thought processes like we do, so I cannot say what I think that they think.

I think I should get a prize for going off topic, but basically staying on topic!

Just one last off topic comment; I just believe that everyone should inform themselves as much as possible. I think every atheist should read the bible and every christian should read Marx and Russell. I don't think anyone should cling to any viewpoint without studying both sides.

Anyway, I remember reading when I was a kid that snakes have very sensitive jawbones, and are thus able to sense vibrations through them. I don't recall whether this pertained to a specific species, genus, or to all snakes though.

But as I've said in all my posts regarding feeding in separate enclosures, ball pythons perceive the world much differently than we do. Although it's very easy for us to recognize the opening of an enclosure as a specific phenomenon, a ball python may not perceive this event very clearly. After all, I doubt a ball python can comprehend whether an enclosure is in an open or closed state. It will try to escape either way, but simply meet success or failure through continuous trial without any consciousness of what state the enclosure is in.

Moo? Oh wait.. no... Baa? darnit, that's not it... *gurgle* Oops.. Nope not it either...


*yells tarzan sounds* Yay that's it ;)

Sorry, felt the need to lighten the topic..