albino/pied project

I swear I posted to this thread already. Maybe it was too long and errored out.

Anyway, my points are:

A quicker way than adding up all the possibilities of varying degrees of success is to calculate the odds of failure and subtract it from one (you either succeed or fail so together they make a 100% chance).

Each 66% possible het has a 33% chance of not being a het (it either is or isn't so 1 - 2/3 = 1/3 or 33%). The chance of both members of a pair of 66% chance hets NOT being hets is 1/3 X 1/3 = 1/9 so the chance of success is 1 - 1/9 = 8/9 if all you are going for is not having a pair of normals. As you start working with bigger groups than pairs (i.e. are any of a clutch of six 50% chance hets actual hets) it gets very complicated to keep track of all the possible combinations of one or more hets so it's easier to figure the odds of no hets and subtract it from 1.

Perhaps the more interesting possibility is the chance that both possible hets in a pair are hets since you need that to even have a shot at producing a homozygous.

In 2003 I bred a 66% chance het to a 50% chance het albino and only got two good eggs. The chance of them both being hets was 2/3 X 1/2 = 1/3.

Even if they where hets I had to hit the chance of getting at least one albino out of two eggs from het X het. Each egg has a 3/4 chance of NOT being homozygous albino so the chance of neither being homozygous was 3/4 X 3/4 = 9/16. The chance of at least one being a het was 1 - 9/16 = 7/16.

The combined chance of both parents being het and at least one of the babies from only two eggs being het was 1/3 X 7/16 = 7/48 or about 14.6%. So, not astronomically (i.e. lotto odds) difficult but a long shot. It turned out that both eggs where albinos but both where horribly kinked and didn't live (guess my luck ran out).

So, anyway, long answer to the original question, yes, you can produce an albino from a 66% chance het to a 50% chance het. I did it in 3 years from when I produced the possible hets and sold thier 100% chance het father to fund the 66% chance replacement because he is also 50% chance het Jolliff axanthic. Now I've got to decide if I want to use that proven het albino male possible het Jolliff on one of the sister's yet to be proven or give them both to a 66% chance het albino + 66% chance het VPI axanthic 01/04 male.

maybe i missed something. if both traits are resesive (sp) then why try to breed them?

but...what if i have a visual morph of each and both are het for the other, meaning the male is peid het albino and the femail is albino het for peid, both 100%, which would have meant that i'd started this project a decade ago, what would the out come really look like? would it be like a red eyed luesistic(sp) with yellow bloches or an albino with patches of normal color pattern?

I imagine it would be an albino with patches of pure white (without the yellow), but you never know for sure until somebody produces one. Doesn't sound like a particularly interesting project to me, but to each his own.

By the way, you have a 25% chance of making an albino x pied with the animals described. I don't know of any like that persay, but I do know Ralph Davis has some double hets.... the odds are even slimmer with those, only 1/16.

It takes a LOOONG time to make a double homozygous of any two genes, let alone two recessive genes... you'd need a lot of guesswork and a lot of luck. However, it is possible, as that's exactly what snow ball pythons are.

This thread makes my brain hurt......

I'm confused with the 66%, how the heck can you get a 66%? I understand about the 50, 25, and 100, but 66?

When you breed a het to a het of a recessive gene, you get:
25% homozygous normal, normal appearance
50% heterozygous, normal appearance
25% homozygous morph, morph appearance

However, with a recessive gene, the 25% of the clutch that's homozygous normal will look idential to the 50% of the clutch that's heterozygous. In total 75% (25% + 50%) will be normal looking. Therefore, the odds of one of the normal looking ones being hets are simply 50%/75% = 66%. It's actually 66.666666... % (2/3), so technically, it should be 67% instead of 66%. Hope that makes sense...

Thanks....

double hets of each, 1.1 would have to breed, right?
then a certian percentage of those produce offspring would be visible for both if the mixed morphs worked with each other right?

it hasn't been yet to anyones knowledge yet right?

1/16 shot with double recessive hets ... yes it's been done. caramel-hypo (caramel glow), albino-clown, albino-hypo, albino-axanthic. (probably missing something?) ... This year there should be a bunch more.

-adam

and all of those morphs are from a pied|albino mix? i'd like to see what the pied to albino morph looks like.

no, those are all double homo morphs from breeding double hets together. albino pieds should be this year, or next year at the latest.

-adam