Why do most people frown upon the production of Burm/Balls?

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Originally Posted by Alicia

Diamond python prices are on par with that of some ball morphs -- and have done a much better job of staying the same -- people buy the BPs. (I say that as someone intent on getting diamonds after I create the correct space for them). But, yeah, I have to agree otherwise. Most of the carpet complex now takes a a couple minutes of homework to find a pure animal, some more than others. I'm afraid of the same thing happening with the Antaresia pythons.

Other than that, everyone's kinda said anything I could say here for me.

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They are are still that expensive because they all got crossed with carpet pythons (if I remember right) and they can't get anymore for legal reasons. That could be another great species for the hobby but now it isn't because most are gone/so crossed with others you can tell it isn't a diamond python.

I'm not sure if the initial population we had in the US was enough to sustain a pure population in the long run. But it is an example I'm using.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

You do realize that squamate hybrids occur in nature? So how does that fit into the whole "natural history"
aspect?

Let's start with:

Pituophis Catenifer Sayi X Pantherophis Vulpinis

Crotalus Horridus X Sisturus Catenatus

Are we frowning on those as well?

Unfortunately, I cannot find any scientific evidence supporting snakes of the same species with known physiological abnormalities breeding (in the wild) with the sole purpose of creating aesthetically pleasing and financially profitable offspring.

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I am aware of this fact. I don't think it happens as often as some may think. One example is Baird's Rat Snakes and Texas Rat Snakes both share the same range but those who collect them in the wild readily note that while intergrades have certainly and inevitably happened it is incredibly uncommon because both inhabit different niches within the same habitat. The Baird's preferring rocky/hilly areas and the Texas rats seeming to prefer the flatter areas for whatever reason.

Now one could deduce from this previous example that something similar probably happens even with the two combos you've mentioned (and most naturally occurring intergrades for that matter). Otherwise they would never have been separate in their environments long enough to create two distinct species/subspecies.

When I say natural history aspect I mean that captive hybridization doesn't fit into keeping distinct species and subspecies separate. We already live in a world where species go missing every day. As we've seen the overall variety of available species in captivity has dropped as people stop interesting projects in favor of breeding even more ball pythons it's even more important to me.

If hybridization gets too out of control (luckily it isn't that popular yet) we can look forward to a future where you can go to the reptile show and pick your choice of rat snake, gophersnake, Kingsnake, milksnake, python or boa. No more unique species/subspecies. Obviously this is a gross oversimplification but I'm sure you see what I mean.

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Originally Posted by Jhill001

They are are still that expensive because they all got crossed with carpet pythons (if I remember right) and they can't get anymore for legal reasons. That could be another great species for the hobby but now it isn't because most are gone/so crossed with others you can tell it isn't a diamond python.

I'm not sure if the initial population we had in the US was enough to sustain a pure population in the long run. But it is an example I'm using.

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Gotcha. No worries -- it's a niche species, with a much smaller group of people working with pure lines. They're find-able, but I've actually wondered if, with diamonds, if the slightly different care that confused folks early on that didn't hurt their popularity, as well. And may continue to. It was easier and quicker to produce consistent crosses, that still looked very diamondish, than maintain and breed pure diamonds for long periods of time. No argument on diamonds, I think we're just looking at them from different angles.

The only mutts I dislike are the ones you can't identify on the spot, and do cause confusion due to the similarities of both parents. This goes for a majority of subspecies crosses, especially within boa constrictors and carpet pythons, and closely related species such as short tailed pythons. Ironically, a lot less people have a problem with these mixes, and somehow they supposedly aren't a threat to lineage purity. (especially referring to carpet pythons!)
You'd have to be blind to look at a burmball, or a wall python, or any extreme hybrid and confuse it for a pure specimen. Hybrids like these practically look like their own species. The only breeding of these to a parent species would be purely intentional, (and unprofitable) and the odds of accidental gene pool muddling are minuscule. Pure animals like pure carpet pythons, on the other hand, are practically a rarity in the trade. Yet somehow being closely related makes it okay to mix these lineages? To me, it's make sense that it would be less of a reason to mix them.
However, I find the general reasons herpers use to hate hybrids rather weightless or outlandish, especially when applied to the extreme or distinguishable hybrids such as burmball, carpballs, boacondas, etc. The purity of species such as Bredl's, Carpet, and Diamond pythons (for example) is one thing, and I honestly wish those crosses would be heavily condemned, but if someone is seeking to produce a litter of boacondas, bateaters, or burmballs, I don't see a major reason why they shouldn't, so long as they responsible when selling and whatnot, as the usual selling of reptile would entail.

I would hope that the goal of intentional breeding a hybrid would to produce some crazy, half-way alien looking animal anyway.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

My issue with hybrids is the ethic behind it what happen when the third or fourth generation can no longer be distinguish with an animal that is pure and is being sold as pure?

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I don't think that could even happen with most of the wacky hybrids everyone raves about, unless an evil mastermind with this intention wasted tons of money on such a project for years just to produce these mistakable F4's. This, however, is a problem with subspecies and closely related species in so soon as the first generation, and why pure carpet pythons, for example, are such a rarity in the trade.

But is a bateater or burmball a threat to the purity of the reptile trade? Most likely not.