Orangebelly Color Change

I don't know if this is genetic or not (obviously, I hope it is). I have been trying to learn about as much as I can about color changes. I have been talking to other breeders at the Repticon shows that I have vended at. I have been in email contact with a very well known and respected breeder about this. So far the 2012 male Orangebelly has drawn a lot of attention, but no answers. The 2013 female Orangebelly was in her shed that resulted in her becoming Axanthic looking. I almost missed the changed. At the Savannah Reptiday show (October 25, 2014) I was comparing her to her brothers and half brothers from the 2013 season, and noticed that she wasn't standing out as much as they do. She had the belly markings, flames, and head spot, but her base color was muted. Normally the Orangebellies that I have produced pop out because of their base color and the clear Orangebelly/Yellowbelly markers. I had her for sale at that show. The very next weekend was the Columbia Repticon show and I had her for sale and her weird, older half brother on display. She was deep in the middle of shed, and no one even looked at her. A few days later, she finished her shed and that was when I noticed she was Axanthic like. That's when I really thought that it may have a genetic component (prior to that, I was mainly hoping). So I decided to post on here looking for more input. I appreciate you guys responding and hope that we can figure this out.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

MarkS you are incorrect about what you are saying......

What you are referring to is when over night the snake will lose all color. People wrongly refer to it as IMG. We have a snake that this has happened to. This issue is completely different. It also looks to be genetic. Otherwise how else did it happen to 2 different clutches in the same tree?
This looks like it may actually be an IMG snake.

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You're likely right, but I would be hesitant to call ANYTHING genetic until it's been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. There are plenty of people in this hobby who have been left with egg on their faces by declaring something to be obviously genetic when it later proved not to be so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkS

You're likely right, but I would be hesitant to call ANYTHING genetic until it's been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. There are plenty of people in this hobby who have been left with egg on their faces by declaring something to be obviously genetic when it later proved not to be so.

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I don't know if this color change is or isn't genetic. Just with what I am seeing, I am beginning to think that this color change may have a genetic component. It may be similar to the graphite markings in a Graphite Ivory. Not all Orangebellies produce Graphite Ivories, but it is repatable. We know that it is some how linked, but we are not sure what the mechanism is. It is also interesting that the graphite markings can take time to show up. The 2013 Graphite Ivories that I produced from this same founding male took 6 and 10 months to get their first graphite markings. Only time and more breeding will provide the data needed to reach reasonable conclusions. Until there is more data, I'm open to other ideas/theories and appreciate the feedback.

Just some updated pictures. The 2012 male Orangebelly that has changed is in shed, so I will add pictures of him after he sheds, but the 2013 female Orangebelly that is changing just shed yesterday. She has passed the Axanthic looking point, and is starting to get a little bit of color back in as she darkens up.

Here are a few of her by herself:
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...14-12-08_1.jpg
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...14-12-08_2.jpg
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...14-12-08_4.jpg

And here are 2 of her with the 2012 male Orangebelly (normal):
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...14-12-08_1.jpg
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...14-12-08_3.jpg

I'll keep posting pictures as she continues to change.

New lens arrived that allows me to take wider angle shots and the 2 color changing Orangebellies shed this week, so I thought I would take some updated pictures:

The color changing 2013 female Orangebelly is on the left, the color changing 2012 male Orangebelly is on the right, and the normal colored 2012 male Orangebelly is front, middle.
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2015-01-03.jpg
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2015-01-03.jpg

it s amazing this color change, i hope you can prove it coz they really look great

A few more pictures showing how dark the 2013 female has gotten. She is almost as dark as the 2012 male. In the first two pictures, the 2013 female Orangebelly is on top and the 2012 male Orangebelly is on bottom. In the third picture, the 2013 female Orangebelly is on top, while the "normal" 2012 male Orangebelly is on the left, and the 2012 Weird Orangebelly is on the right.

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2015-01-10.jpg
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2015-01-10.jpg
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2015-01-10.jpg

Just wanted to update this thread with a really exciting picture:

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...pseormzayo.jpg

The two color changing Orangebellies have locked up!

Woo Hoo, super color changers.

I really want to see what the ivories in this clutch look like, could be pretty exciting.