Butter Calico Morph?

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Originally Posted by T&CExotics

Google butter calico and then open a new tab and google lesser calico.

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Well the problem is, I cant find just a Butter Calico anywhere. Lol. Everything I find is a Pastel Butter Calico or something else. Can you find a photo of a Butter Calico?

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lol What about a butter sugar then? Calico and sugar are the same thing just like lesser and butter are. Just like any other line of the same morph you can sit there and compare examples all day. You'll find good and bad examples in both lines. I'm not much of an SK axanthic fan just because VPI is more popular (which is why I got into that line since they aren't compatible unless lesser/butter). I've seen some very brown SK as well as VPIs. Heck I saw a super pastel SK axanthic that I did a double take when seeing the tag at the expo. It was so brown I thought it was just a regular dull axanthic. My pastel ax is waaaayyy lighter. Then there amazing SK axanthics that JD Constriction produces. Just saying that there are good and bad examples. The quality of the genes are going to effect the way they look, not the line.

I found a lot of pics of them but for some reason I am unable to link to them. I searched butter calico ball python if that helps any

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Originally Posted by Marrissa

lol What about a butter sugar then?

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haha...love it...:gj:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Misha

Well I'll give you guys a good example: I have a bumble bee and I was looking for a butter fire for my bee. Now according to WOBP genetic wizard (its my only source of figuring out what i'd get), if you mix a bee with a butter/fire it will get totally different combos than if you'd mix it with lesser/fire.

That draws me to a conclusion that butters and lessers are not the same thing. I know this isn't the best argument but at least you can see the difference for yourself.

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you need to realize that WOBP gets a lot of things wrong. toffino is a double recessive for them. toffino to normal gives you double-het toffee albino. same with candino. they list the "het daddy" gene as a dominant. it takes 10 minutes to find a new mistake on WOBP, if you know what to look for.

about butter pastel calico looking different from lesser pastel calico.... are you sure it isnt the calico that is to blame? calicos can be high white or low white, just like piebalds, and there is an awful lot of variation even within the same clutch. then we also have pastel in there, you can have low quality pastel and high quality pastel.

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/calico-pastel/ <-- a lot of variation. add the same lesser to all of them, there would still be a lot of variation.

the thing with butter and lesser is that we have so many strong indications that they are the same, you can no longer say they are not the same unless you can show how to tell them apart. you need to give people some reason to believe that lesser and butter are different. one thing that is a big indication for me: why do lesser butters get the same eye-issue that super lessers and super butters get? how can that be possible if its not the same morph? the tendency to sometimes have small eyes or bug eyes is something really rare and unique. its a genetic flaw, and its unique to both butters and lessers. that would be a HUGE coincidence if it would be just a coincidence. for me, its convincing, and if you want to get me to believe that lesser and butter are different, you need to come up with something really good. you need something even more convincing.

That makes a lot of sense. It seems like there's a lot of these "double morphs" and its very confusing at times. Actually, it's confusing a lot of the times. Especially when im trying to research new additions to my collection.

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Totally typed in butter sugar and got results...

x2 on buy by the look instead of the title for Sugar/Calico and Lesser/Butter

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

you need to realize that WOBP gets a lot of things wrong. toffino is a double recessive for them. toffino to normal gives you double-het toffee albino. same with candino. they list the "het daddy" gene as a dominant. it takes 10 minutes to find a new mistake on WOBP, if you know what to look for.

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I haven't gone to look, and I'm not saying that wobp doesn't have mistakes (at one time it had a hgw spider combo on there, may still have, that combo is actually a solid white snake that's a lethal or near lethal combination...some do hatch, but die shortly after hatching), but it sounds correct on both of those. The het daddy gene is a form of a dominant gene and is allelic with the bel complex, it just seems to only really show up with the lesser/butter when combined with it and makes a platinum.

Toffino/Candino IS a double het animal, bred to a normal gives you normals that are either het for toffee/candy or albino with no way to know which is which...so the babies are definite hets, with a 50% chance of being one or the other, but they can not be both.

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Originally Posted by rascal_rascal_99

I haven't gone to look, and I'm not saying that wobp doesn't have mistakes (at one time it had a hgw spider combo on there, may still have, that combo is actually a solid white snake that's a lethal or near lethal combination...some do hatch, but die shortly after hatching), but it sounds correct on both of those. The het daddy gene is a form of a dominant gene and is allelic with the bel complex, it just seems to only really show up with the lesser/butter when combined with it and makes a platinum.

Toffino/Candino IS a double het animal, bred to a normal gives you normals that are either het for toffee/candy or albino with no way to know which is which...so the babies are definite hets, with a 50% chance of being one or the other, but they can not be both.

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super het daddys have been produced from platty daddy x platty daddy breedings, they are quite a bit lighter than normals. so its not a dominant. there are no dominants with a visual and viable super form, thats a contradiction.

and when you breed a toffino to a normal, you do not get double-hets that are 100% het albino 100% het toffee. and when you breed an albino to a toffee, you do not get normal-looking double hets. here WOBP simply denies the fact that these genes are compatible. a breeding of toffino to albino will not give you albinos that are 100% het toffee, these are impossible and cannot exist. a breeding of toffino to toffino will not give you 100% toffinos.

these are obvious mistakes. and they lead to even more obvious mistakes when using their genetic calculator.