Male Eastern Black Headed Python Shed Pics

I am no longer into pythons at all, so I'm not really familiar with who is breeding what or better yet, who is claiming what. I do see ads pop up from time to time however........

I have, however, seen people advertising "Western" type Melanocephalus............ as well as Eastern. Having herped Australia while I lived there, I do have knowledge on how appearances can vary - example, somewhat unique animals from Durack (Port Hedland) and even discernible color variations within the Kimberley itself. Not to charge to far off the subject but among stimsoni, the differences between locales can be shocking.

While I was there I worked with William Messick who, while doesn't frequent any forums, had an extensive locality collection of aspidites - both womas and black heads. If you had asked me 15 years ago to define a "western" type, I would honestly be stumped.

...and still am.

The question is this - is this an accepted descriptor based on appearance or based on the known traceable origin of the animals? If the easterns are not traceable in this country, why are people selling animals as "eastern" type?

http://www.derekroddysblackheadedpyt...types-2614866/


I hope that link works, personally I think that's one of the best explanations there has been on the subject.

Is "western type" or "western phase" an accurate descriptive word for animals? To me it seems to be widely accepted as meaning the more black and white high contrast animals and I don't really have a problem with that, I think it's much less wrong than "codom/co-dom" but good luck ever getting rid of that! ;) I preferably would rather see more descriptive terms used though instead, as is talked about in the link I posted.

I would be very skeptical of anyone using "western" and claiming it to truely be a locality animal (outside of australia) unless you can show who illegally smuggled the animal or it's parents out of the country and prove where it's lineage was wild caught from...again, good luck with that one also. Somewhere along the way in there you're also going to end up having to trust the word of an animal smuggler...and if they were really the most honest people in the world, they wouldn't be doing what they're doing.

I have also seen the variation of high color to high contrast (eastern and western) come out of the same clutch and the animals be described as eastern and western type even though they were clutch mates. I really don't fault people for this in describing color and contrast, but I also don't put any weight into the words actually having anything to do with locality.

I do think if aussie borders ever open up, and 100% pure pilbara animals (what I would consider a true western type in looks and locality) are imported, they will command a significantly higher price than our generic westerns that we have now, same goes for some of the other more refined locality animals down under...again though, good luck with that ever happening, you'll probably have a better shot at getting rid of "codom".:gj:

BHPs are beautiful and impressive animals, I love mine and OP you have a great looking animal, I hope you enjoy it for many years to come.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiploder

I am no longer into pythons at all, so I'm not really familiar with who is breeding what or better yet, who is claiming what. I do see ads pop up from time to time however........

---

In the last several years... I have been able to turn up paperwork on a lot of our founding lines just by doing a little research and writing zoo's , etc. For instance, there were several animals brought in by Shultz from the Perth Zoo in a trade for Sanzinia. Perth Zoo animals are from the Sandfire Locale. Problem is...when these animals were brought in...there was one female (ironically, the only one I can track down) and 3 males in the group. They went to :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: Goergen in the mid 90s.
Our axanthic line stems from animals from Australia zoo from over 30 years ago. They were animals collected the NT....around the Rabbit Flats area. Of course, there are the animals that were brought in illegally....and, if you know where to look and who to ask....you can get viable info and even some location data and pictures if you try hard enough. Haha.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiploder

While I was there I worked with William Messick who, while doesn't frequent any forums, had an extensive locality collection of aspidites - both womas and black heads. If you had asked me 15 years ago to define a "western" type, I would honestly be stumped.

...and still am.

---

Messick...haven't heard his name in quite awhile. Did some good work with all types of Aussie critters.

There are 2 areas in Aussie that I would consider to have slight differences to other BHPs. One being the Pilbara, the other being the Kimberley. Having been there multiple times myself, I would agree that most keepers wouldn't know a "west" BHP if it was right in front of them. I've developed a very good eye for spotting animals with western lineage. You can get animals in Queensland that are every bit as "white and black" but, the pattern of animals to the west of the 80 mile beach area...is something you don't see on bhps anywhere else in Aussie.

Another misconception is that all the BHPs in the Pilbara are light cream/white and that is certainly not the case. I've seen BHPs just as dark colored as BHP anywhere else in Aussie out there....but, the patterns are very consistent from animal to animal in that region. Some a little thinner, some a little thicker but, they ALL have that certain look about them. A look that you just don't see to the east of that area. And you'll never see red coloration on animals in the Pilbara. Don't start seeing that until you get into the Kimberleys.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiploder

The question is this - is this an accepted descriptor based on appearance or based on the known traceable origin of the animals?

---

It's a bit of both these days. Most people call a red banded animal a east and, most call a black banded animal a west. It's a case of "they simply don't know" and "it hard to reverse what the Barkers have written in a book". And in reality, anything to the right of west Aussie is east.....right? Haha.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiploder

If the easterns are not traceable in this country, why are people selling animals as "eastern" type?

---

They simply don't know any better or they haven't done their research. This is why I tell buyers to make sure they get these animals from people who know them....not just a keeper with one pair giving wrong info....... if you're into lineage, etc.

D

Another thing to consider is that the term "east BHP" was never used until the "west" BHP started being illegally imported.

That might have something to do with the description variable. "It's not a west....must be a east".

D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rascal_rascal_99

I would be very skeptical of anyone using "western" and claiming it to truely be a locality animal (outside of australia)

---

Make no mistake about it....there are western animals here. I have a boat load of them. What we don't know is if one of those animals came from 80 mile beach and the other from Derby. That's a big distance and you can get several different types of BHPs with in it and, it will show up in your breeding trials. I do have one pair of animals that is as close to any Pilbara that I've seen and they breed true....the right head scales, pattern, color, etc. But some of my others....breed out animals that could be from the Kimberley areas, etc. BUT, they are western animals. It's the same as breeding a south carolina corn snake from Greenville to a "okeetee"...they're still SC corn snakes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rascal_rascal_99

unless you can show who illegally smuggled the animal or it's parents out of the country and prove where it's lineage was wild caught from...again, good luck with that one also.

---

There were several people who got west animals in and I do have all the collection info for most of them. Again, if you do the research and verify it between a few people....you can start to put a pretty clear picture together.

D

Thanks for the input D, I know you've studied this long and hard and trust your word on it! :gj: