Substrate question

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Originally Posted by satomi325

I'm pretty sure TS bedding is kiln dried. Most processed wood is.
But if its not, well. Tons of people have been using it on their rodents and reptiles with no ill effect. So it can't be that toxic.....

(I just personally hate it due to odor and absorption issues)

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I had three mice die and two gerbils. The rest just got RIs and bloody noses.

Wood bedding is absorbent and the best on odor in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by satomi325

Lol. How large are your snakes? I clean right away too, but their waste still smells imo.

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Small he is just now eating rat crawlers.

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Originally Posted by Awaiting Abyss

Wood bedding is absorbent and the best on odor in my opinion.

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I don't disagree. I just think other brands are more absorbant and better at odor control than the TS one.

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Originally Posted by fishdip

Small he is just now eating rat crawlers.

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Wait till he grows up and poops out large dog size turds. ;)
Haha


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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Hmmmm. It says dried right in the description and before we go there, they only dry shavings one way. Wood must be kiln dried before processing so that the moisture content is below 19%. This eliminates bacteria and molds that can cause shavings to beak down and also makes them more hygienic. That it why I have never seen an animal bedding product that is not kiln dried. It's not about the reduction of aromatics, but about making a more stable hygienic product.

How can you tell whether it's kiln dried by touching it? Hint, just because the wood is moist does not mean it wasn't first kiln dried. Just means it's moist, as the packaging is not moisture proof and these bags are often kept outside. Is there another method for figuring this out by touching it? Smelling it? Tasting it?

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Smell and touch. Plus if you bake it, sap comes out so clearly it was not put in an actual kiln.

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Originally Posted by Awaiting Abyss

Smell and touch. Plus if you bake it, sap comes out so clearly it was not put in an actual kiln.

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It says dried on the bag. We have established that and we have established that they only dry wood shavings one way - in a kiln. Smell is not an indicator - many kiln dried pine shavings smell heavily of, well, pine. Go figure.

So Tractor Supply is lying? Have you notified the rest of the reptile world of this cover up and the ensuing holocaust of death inflicted on your rodents?

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

It says dried on the bag. We have established that and we have established that they only dry wood shavings one way - in a kiln. Smell is not an indicator - many kiln dried pine shavings smell heavily of, well, pine. Go figure.

So Tractor Supply is lying? Have you notified the rest of the reptile world of this cover up and the ensuing holocaust of death inflicted on your rodents?

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Unless they have changed the bag, it does not say dried or kiln dried. I searched that entire bag searching for it. And yes, there are other ways to dry wood. Air-drying. That's why you have to make sure it specifies that it is kiln-dried.

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Originally Posted by Awaiting Abyss

Unless they have changed the bag, it does not say dried or kiln dried. I searched that entire bag searching for it. And yes, there are other ways to dry wood. Air-drying. That's why you have to make sure it specifies that it is kiln-dried.

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Look at the link you sent me. Read the Description portion of the product. It say's dried.

Let's clear a few things up so that we all understand what the kiln drying process does - it does nothing more than reduce the total moisture % from 19 or 20 down to about 15. It does not remove ALL of the moisture - so do not expect your pine bedding to be moisture free. It does not remove all of the phenols - so do not expect your pine bedding to be phenol free. By the very description you gave, the TSC bedding is kiln dried.

Now about "air drying". Air drying actually produces a slightly superior bedding (2 to 4% more moisture reduction), sadly only a few very comparably expensive and non-commerically available manufacturers utilize these mostly custom and/or proprietary processes. There are also high temperature heat dried shavings, which are very dry, brittle and dusty AND, not easily obtained at your local feed store.

The pine shavings you buy at Petco, TS, Petsmart, Premium Pet Mart, Pet Club etc are all kiln dried. Some are even kiln dried and then nominally air dried.

Let's get back on point here. All bedding shavings are dried in some manner or another. 99% of them are kiln dried because it is the fastest and least expensive method of drying wood shavings.

However, it is not as effective as removing moisture and phenols as the other two methods which the vast majority of wood shaving purchasers never see for sale.

In the past, I had a line through an local equestrian center on JTS soft wood bedding - which is an air dried product. It was about double the cost (even in bulk) of buying Mallard Creek bedding and frankly, the differences were minimal. Slightly less odor and slightly drier. Not worth the added expense.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Look at the link you sent me. Read the Description portion of the product. It say's dried.

Let's clear a few things up so that we all understand what the kiln drying process does - it does nothing more than reduce the total moisture % from 19 or 20 down to about 15. It does not remove ALL of the moisture - so do not expect your pine bedding to be moisture free. It does not remove all of the phenols - so do not expect your pine bedding to be phenol free. By the very description you gave, the TSC bedding is kiln dried.

Now about "air drying". Air drying actually produces a slightly superior bedding (2 to 4% more moisture reduction), sadly only a few very comparably expensive and non-commerically available manufacturers utilize these mostly custom and/or proprietary processes. There are also high temperature heat dried shavings, which are very dry, brittle and dusty AND, not easily obtained at your local feed store.

The pine shavings you buy at Petco, TS, Petsmart, Premium Pet Mart, Pet Club etc are all kiln dried. Some are even kiln dried and then nominally air dried.

Let's get back on point here. All bedding shavings are dried in some manner or another. 99% of them are kiln dried because it is the fastest and least expensive method of drying wood shavings.

However, it is not as effective as removing moisture and phenols as the other two methods which the vast majority of wood shaving purchasers never see for sale.

In the past, I had a line through an local equestrian center on JTS soft wood bedding - which is an air dried product. It was about double the cost (even in bulk) of buying Mallard Creek bedding and frankly, the differences were minimal. Slightly less odor and slightly drier. Not worth the added expense.

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I use mallard creek tri mix equine bedding and have been happy with it thus far. Out of pine/fir beddings what is your take on MC TM?


I like my Dubstep to go Wop Wop Wop Wop

Oh wow TONS of replies. It seems that joining this community is one of the best things I've done. So from what I've read, by and large kiln dried pine doesn't seem to have much of an adverse affect on rats or snakes. For safety reasons if I decided to just use the pine as bedding for the rats and maybe aspen for my snakes to avoid any phenols do you guys think I would have a problem feeding the snake the rats?

Thanks a ton for everyones knowledge and input. I can't imagine how often this gets debated so thank you for bearing with me.

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Originally Posted by Expensive hobby

I use mallard creek tri mix equine bedding and have been happy with it thus far. Out of pine/fir beddings what is your take on MC TM?


I like my Dubstep to go Wop Wop Wop Wop

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Same here. Mallard Creek makes a nice product.