Ball python losing weight

Looking at your other thread, I'm more and more convinced that dehydration is part, if not most, of your problem. If you are using that stick on dial to measure temps, and that is reading 90F, your tank is probably too hot, especially given that you have two lamps and a UTH running. The dial is a few inches above the substrate, not on the substrate where the snake actually is. So, I would recommend getting either a thermometer with a probe or a temp gun ASAP. I would also suggest a soak in lukewarm (80-85F) water. I'd put water in a shoebox tub so that it comes about halfway up the snake's side (you don't want him to have to swim). Put him in the shoebox, and leave him for about 15-20min.

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Originally Posted by jaded

There is a big difference between animals in the nature and our pet snakes. I hope everybody understands that.

There is no reason to feed live. No reason to put snake at risk. You wouldn't strangle your snake to death, no reason to do it to the prey either.
But maybe this is not the place for this discussion.

Maybe OP's snake has been on f/t all his life. Maybe the previous owner just neclegted his care. Nobody knows. It's plain stupid to start with live when it may very well take f/t. If it simply wont accept f/t, then by all means give it a live one.

To give you a little perspective, here is Hope's story: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...nourished-ball
I got tons of good advice with Hope, maybe there is something useful for you too :)

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Careful!! That's a VERY slippery slope. Honestly, there are a LOT of reasons to feed live, just as there are a lot of reasons to feed f/t. Full disclosure, I feed f/t, and Ajja has only had 3 live mice since I got her @ 8 weeks. Incidentally, she also came from LLL.

While there IS a difference between wild and CB, in the first few months, you want to stick as close to the behaviors and instincts of a wild BP as possible. I'm not an animal psychologist, veterinarian, or herpetologist, but animal behavior IS a major interest and area of study for me. I may have some...unorthodox ideas (right, Neal? No hard feelings, I love you, man!), the fact remains that until you've worked with an individual animal for quite a while, your beat bet is to rely on its natural instincts. In this case, that means live prey until you get consistent feeding. If he wants to switch to f/t or pre killed later on, great. For now though, the last thing the OP needs to worry about is training this little guy to do something out of the ordinary (from a wild BP perspective). I understand where you're coming from, and I agree that if an animal will feed f/t consistently, there's no reason not to do that. Later, though.

To the OP, I've made two moron mistakes today. In this case, I completely blanked on dehydration being a possibility. HOWEVER... I still say go to a vet. If it is dehydration, that gets her on the road to health and contentment. If not, they're going to be able to figure out the problem and help you fix it.

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Originally Posted by jaded

It's plain stupid to start with live

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Feeding live is not stupid. It never is. You can do it stupidly (give your 220g snake a 150g, dehydrated, hungry rat), but feeding live in and of itself is not stupid. It never will be.

It may be convenient to feed FT. It may be less expensive. It may make you think you're doing something more humane. You may have a lot of reasons to feed FT.

Your snake doesn't care. It will eat live rodents. It always will. It's not worried about inconveniencing you, costing you money, or hurting a mouse's feelings by crushing the life out of it. Those are things you worry about.

Thanks you everyone for your replies and concerns lll reptile did comment on my other post and I have called them and they gave me some advice and told me to contact them back in the next few days with how my snake was doing. He is currently soaking in lukewarm water. I will be offering him food in a bit after his soak. I bought a live mouse smallest I could get, and a frozen thawed one figured if try and offer frozen thawed. My concern is I don't think he is done shedding his eyes are pale and cracked so I'm not sure what his feeding response will be if he doesn't take food and this soak doesn't help him I will be going to a vet that sees snakes. Hoping for the best and I'll keep this post updated. Thank you again.

Guys, this thread isn't a live vs. FT thread, there are at least two other threads like that on the Index page alone right now. If you have beefs with feeding one way or the other, take it there.

This thread is about helping a pretty sad-looking snake and its keeper. If you have useful suggestions or experience, this is the place to post.

OP, feed whatever you feel comfortable with/whatever the snake will eat to get it started. You can always switch later, but right now that guy needs a small meal, and then a few heartier ones when he keeps that moving through his digestive tract. (The hydration soak definitely couldn't hurt either!)

Is this the snake you purchased from LLLreptile? If so I would contact them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jaded

There is a big difference between animals in the nature and our pet snakes. I hope everybody understands that.

There is no reason to feed live. No reason to put snake at risk. You wouldn't strangle your snake to death, no reason to do it to the prey either.
But maybe this is not the place for this discussion.

Maybe OP's snake has been on f/t all his life. Maybe the previous owner just neclegted his care. Nobody knows. It's plain stupid to start with live when it may very well take f/t. If it simply wont accept f/t, then by all means give it a live one.

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I urge you to get off your high horse and throw out that attitude.

1) Not all CB snakes will take F/T. Some snakes are picky enough to even refuse live. And *most* snakes that are already picky on live will not take F/T.

2) Not all F/T feedings are risk free - tons of snakes have died from being fed an improperly thawed out feeder. Snakes go into a system shock from eating a rat with a still frozen core even though the outer temp was good.

3) A snake coiling a rat is no different from euthanizing it via CO2. In fact, I deem it more humane since a snake coil does stimulates endorphins, which does dull pain receptors. CO2 is not pain free. Humane, yes, but it does sting the eyes and nose. (I work in a research lab and have euthanized hundreds of animals via CO2)
And both methods take about the same time to kill a rodent.

Snakes have evolved to be efficient killers over millions of years. A coil is efficient and humane in regards to the prey.

4) Feeding live is not stupid. And offering a live prey can be a life saver in situations, such as this one. You want to offer the snake the best possible chance at eating and regaining that weight. And as I mentioned before, live is the best jump starter for the feed response. And as a snake that is potentially sensitive, f/t may not work.

There are pros and cons to both live and F/T.
Neither are risk free.
Everyone should feed what works for them. If that's F/T that's fine. If that's live, that is *also* fine. Saying one or the other is 'stupid', is the most ridiculous thing I've heard since BOS Reptiles.

Yes it is the snake that I got from lllreptiles. I've contacted them and they have me
some advice. After his soak he seems a lot brighter in color and it also helped his shed. A bit after his soak I tried offering him the frozen thawed mouse but he didn't take it. I feel it's in part because he is shedding his eyes are still pale and cracked. I'm not sure if I should put the live mouse with him while he is in shed. I'm hoping it was just dehydration. Is this caused because it's too hot or becuase it not humid enough? Humidity reads at 70% atm and the temp on the hot side reads 80. I'm gonna head to the store in a few to get a digital thermometer/hydrometer with a probe as the current plastic one seems worthless. It will read 80 but my thermostat which is set to 89 will turn the heat off while the plastic thermometer still reads 80. Should I continuer to soak him? Maybe once a day? And should I still offer him the live mouse while shedding ?

1) If the live mouse is an appropriate size, I would go ahead and offer it. You may have better luck if you don't hover, and turn the lights off.
2) Those analog gauges are notoriously inaccurate, so you are right to get rid of it. The other issue is that the gauge isn't measuring the temperature at the same location as the thermostat probe, or even in a location where the snake actually is. You don't really need to know what the temperature is along the glass a few inches up in the air. That isn't where the snake is likely to be. You need to know the temperature on the cage floor where the snake actually is, on both the warm and cool sides.
3)The thermostat you have can work, but it isn't all that accurate either. So you really need a good thermometer to verify what your temps are. You may find that having that thermostat set at 89 doesn't actually give you an 89 degree temperature. It may take some tweaking to get everything right. Partially, it is because that thermostat has temperature settings that are not all that precise and partially it is because it is an on/off thermostat that doesn't check the temperature all that often. So your heat sources may be heating things up quickly and the thermostat may not be keeping up, if that makes sense.

I am curious to see what the temps actually are...I am guessing they are higher than you think.

With as dry as the substrate is in the cage, plus shedding, plus a poop - the snake is likely just dehydrated.

When I checked on recently shipped pastels, I was told the only one shipped on the 30th to arrive the 31st was a vanilla pastel - I saw and took pictures of those exact snakes just days before yours was sent out to you. They were sassy little snakes, very pretty, and I had used them in earlier pictures for Christmas posts as well.

They were feeding on regular, live adult mice at the store.

Again, please keep us posted - it probably looks the way it does due to being too dry while trying to shed. While the dial humidity gauges can be helpful, they are often quite inaccurate. I would make sure the moss in the cage is nice and wet (dunk it in a container of water for a bit, then put it in the cage pretty much dripping wet), and look into switching out the substrate for something that holds more moisture ASAP.

It is likely that the snake won't want to eat with a stuck shed on it, but that is not something to worry about quite yet. If it doesn't eat the live mouse, leave the F/T one in overnight, and then don't try again for a full week. Call back each week if the snake doesn't eat to keep us posted so that we can take care of you if there are continued issues.

I think the non-balled up snake in this picture is the one that OP was shipped - this is the week before OP would have received the snake. I remember these vanilla pastels - I wanted one myself!

http://lllreptile.com/load-image/Sto...ge/image/11348

-Jen