Leonardo is sick, swelling/bleeding...

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Originally Posted by FireStorm

Wouldn't the culture be more useful if it was done before antibiotics were started? I was under the impression that this was the case, at least with humans.

I hope the poor guy is feeling better soon...keep us posted.

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Yes a culture would have been more beneficial prior to treatment. What usually happens is the swab is taken and sent in to the lab for testing. The snake is generally started on a common treatment while waiting for the culture results just so the infection does not get worse. Then the meds are changed if necessary to better fit the final diagnosis once the test results come back.

Doing one now should still show what type of bacteria is present, but if the baytril is helping it may not matter.

My post was more meant to explain that if it is an abscess or tooth issue, it may not go away as quickly as RI or rot. Tooth issues often flare up more than once until the bad tooth comes out. I had this problem with one of my retics. Due to a broken tooth there was an abscess. It took 3 rounds of treatment during flare ups over the course of almost a year before the problem finally fixed itself. Their mouths are so sensitive that the smallest thing can cause an infection.

Poor little guy! Hope you find out soon what it is and he recovers quickly!

Thanks so much everyone. He was looking great this morning as far as swelling and mouth color. But alas, this evening his head was partly swollen again and that red area was puffed up.

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Originally Posted by Coleslaw007

Your thread reminded me very much of what happened with my snake, I very much doubt it is the same though, not trying to scare you.


http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=195427

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I'm so sorry for your loss :( This is really a scary thought. :(

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Originally Posted by FireStorm

Wouldn't the culture be more useful if it was done before antibiotics were started? I was under the impression that this was the case, at least with humans.

I hope the poor guy is feeling better soon...keep us posted.

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Yes, very much so. Her reasoning behind it was explained to me as, she was trying to save us the money of the cultures and believed the baytril oral would be enough. Although she is a registered reptile vet and appears on all of the "herp vet" websites, I think she might be better suited at more common issues like parasites/burns/etc rather than internal. It seems like many vets believe baytril is the cure-all for reptiles, and although it does work phenomenally for a lot of things, I agree a culture is needed. I guess it was just wishful thinking/hoping on my part that we might be able to beat this thing with 1 visit/treatment. Silly me :rolleyes:

So here is a question, he ate about 7 days ago, should I offer him? Or hold off until after the vet on monday? He's cruising and I know he's a hungry little dude (or smells the rats the others are getting ;) ) But I don't want to possibly irritate the abscess/abraison/tooth...Opinions welcomed!


Again, thank you all so much for the insight and speculations. Our visit is at 5pm on Monday so I will update after that as soon as I'm able.

I personally wouldn't feed him quite yet until you get the ok from the vet. Mostly because if it is an infection in his mouth, I'm not sure raw rat meat would help that out any. Also the possibility of him taking it and hurting himself more in the process. I don't think it would hurt him any to wait but it might hurt him to take it so I would go with the lesser of 2 evils there just to be safe...

More than likely he wont eat.
Your situation looks very familiar to an issue I had with an acquired snake.
I had to extract a couple broken teeth out of the gum line. All kinds of stuff came out with them but the swelling went down almost instantly.
The only reasons I did it was because it was going to be 48 hours before I could get him to a good vet and when I was looking in his mouth I saw one of the teeth sticking out sideways.

Surprisingly enough he has not refused a meal yet during this 2 week ordeal. But I will wait until talking to the vet on Monday. He may not be happy with me for holding out on him, but I'm sure it's it's best for him.

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

Surprisingly enough he has not refused a meal yet during this 2 week ordeal. But I will wait until talking to the vet on Monday. He may not be happy with me for holding out on him, but I'm sure it's it's best for him.

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Eating could irritate the area and cause another flare-up. I'd definitely hold out so that it isn't swollen at the appointment and maybe the issue can be spotted easier.

5 o'clock can't get here fast enough. I want him all better :-(

I'm really looking forward to meeting this vet too. He's a very active member of the central florida herpetological society, and has some stellar reviews.

Thank you all for the help and insight. I will update after the visit this afternoon.

Good luck and i hope the little guy makes a speedy recovery.

Okay, so we're back from the vet. And the news is...confusing.

So within seconds of Dr.Bruce opening Leo's mouth, he said it was not RI, Mouth Rot, or an abscess. He had never seen this type of hemorrhaging in the mouth without free bleeding elsewhere (fecal/vent). He took many pictures to send to colleagues out west, and took blood to run a full bloodwork on him. He told me he would not prescribe medication until he had narrowed down a cause/diagnosis more. He is going to call me tomorrow with the blood results and we'll figure out a course of action from there. He said the good thing is that it's not affecting his behavior or appetite. He said to continue his normal feeding schedule.

The teeth all look good, no broken teeth.

The only thing he asked me to change is what rats he's currently eating, as that is the only thing that singles Leo out vs my other snakes. Leo is the only snake currently eating f/t weaned rats from this bag. He said it may be unrelated, but to eliminate that difference and get him on the same rats as my others (My personal bred rats, rather than the ones I bought online) just to rule that out.

He believes the bloodwork will grant some insight into what is going on, he thinks it could be red blood cell related. Hopefully, by this time tomorrow we will have a more direct diagnosis and an idea of how to treat it.

I am very pleased with this vet, as he seems to be very knowledgeable regarding herps, and asked a LOT of questions, which is more than I can say for the other vet.

So..no real answer, but we have at least ruled out mouth rot, ri and abscess.

Evidently Leo must be unique in all aspects of life :rolleyes: