het clown?

I'm working with the albino gene a lot this season and last season. You can really see what the het albino gene does to the normal. I've also seen what it does to spider and Mojave. It tends to throw higher white spiders and super light mojaves. When I have some time Tomorrow I'll post some pic's. I do believe that the "het" gene can sometimes manifest its-self but I do agree that they markers arent 100% accurate. If you know the animals and bred them you stand a higher chance of guessing whats what.

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Originally Posted by BP2

I'm working with the albino gene a lot this season and last season. You can really see what the het albino gene does to the normal. I've also seen what it does to spider and Mojave. It tends to throw higher white spiders and super light mojaves. When I have some time Tomorrow I'll post some pic's. I do believe that the "het" gene can sometimes manifest its-self but I do agree that they markers arent 100% accurate. If you know the animals and bred them you stand a higher chance of guessing whats what.

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That is really interesting. I would have thought that the albino gene would make a het darker.
Because higher the albino contrast, darker the normal het would be. Just like how the highest contrast albinos are black pastel albinos.
I'm really surprised Mojave hets are light.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I have not produced pieds so no I don't think I could but give me a few years of producing them and I bet I'd get pretty good at identifying them.
I have produced a good number of het clowns, yes I believe I could accurately pull out the true hets from the non hets and have clutches of pos het clowns coming that I plan on sharing.

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Understood. And I guess in a clutch where u know some are hets and some are not would be easier to compare them all. But I guess what the OP is asking and my lack of confidence in markers is a single animal.....if someone posts a pic of a 50% het clown you could still ID if that snake is het? I dunno. If you can you are amazing.:bow:

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Originally Posted by tikigator

Understood. And I guess in a clutch where u know some are hets and some are not would be easier to compare them all. But I guess what the OP is asking and my lack of confidence in markers is a single animal.....if someone posts a pic of a 50% het clown you could still ID if that snake is het? I dunno. If you can you are amazing.:bow:

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The markers are best used in a clutch situation.
I agree a person asking if a single snake is or isn't a het is a lot harder.

Adding the albino gene to black pastel seemed to make it darker and the het albino's I have had and produced seemed to be pretty dark but I haven't made enough to say that for a fact.
Albino markers are easy on a normal but gets much more difficult in morphs.

I have a pinstripe het alnino male and he is brighter and his dorsal stripe is a little different which I find common in others I seen(but some normal pinstripes can have the same stripe so im not saying its a sure sign)..and a cinny het albino female...shes not bright but does look different..

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Originally Posted by tikigator

Well I was not getting into poor breeding practices I was talking about offspring with one "parent" being visual (for sake of keeping it simple let's say 2 virgin snakes) the offspring WILL be 100% het if either of the parents are visual. It does not matter which was the visual. That was my point.

People breeding multiple males or females multiple times without a clutch being laid is an entirely different issue. Like a friend of mine who bred his normal to a calico a dozen times and got an entire clutch of pinstripes.....yep....... ;)

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you still have a chance for partenogenesis and gynogenesis, so I still disagree. yes this is rare but happens and more so in reptiles.

a friend of mine who's also a ball python breeder had a clutch last year. the female was a normal. he raise her up to breeding size, her first year breeding, she was breed to a killerbee. had a clutch with hatchlings turning out as for the breeding. next year he breed it to a super emperor pin, again he got what he was breeding for. last year he breed it to a super pastel champagne and got all normal females. the clutch size was 4 or 5 I'll have to ask him again on that part. he doesn't have any males that are recessive and he keeps very good records on his snakes. being the male didn't past on any of his genes and they all got them for the female. which is one reason they all was females too.
I email tracy barker from vpi and she also stated that the only way to be totally sure that a hatchling is recessive is if the female in the breeding is the visual. yes many breeders sells 100% hets from breeding a visual male. and most likely they are.

I also know another breeder who's female have a clutch of eggs, the next year he breed her to another male and she again had a clutch. and the sire of this clutch was the first male, she retained sperm even after having a clutch between the 2 breedings.

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Originally Posted by don15681

you still have a chance for partenogenesis and gynogenesis, so I still disagree. yes this is rare but happens and more so in reptiles.

a friend of mine who's also a ball python breeder had a clutch last year. the female was a normal. he raise her up to breeding size, her first year breeding, she was breed to a killerbee. had a clutch with hatchlings turning out as for the breeding. next year he breed it to a super emperor pin, again he got what he was breeding for. last year he breed it to a super pastel champagne and got all normal females. the clutch size was 4 or 5 I'll have to ask him again on that part. he doesn't have any males that are recessive and he keeps very good records on his snakes. being the male didn't past on any of his genes and they all got them for the female. which is one reason they all was females too.
I email tracy barker from vpi and she also stated that the only way to be totally sure that a hatchling is recessive is if the female in the breeding is the visual. yes many breeders sells 100% hets from breeding a visual male. and most likely they are.

I also know another breeder who's female have a clutch of eggs, the next year he breed her to another male and she again had a clutch. and the sire of this clutch was the first male, she retained sperm even after having a clutch between the 2 breedings.

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"100% het recessive"

I think parthenogenesis might be fairly common in ball pythons. We really need a commercial paternity test. They have them for most domestic animals and some birds and even fish.

I don't know of any markers for het albino but pied and hypo seem fairly co-dominant. I've heard rumors on clown but doesn't sound to be nearly as consistent as pied.