What are they? Colour help please!

I finally took some time to really examine that darker "blue", and I think you guys are right about the mink. The individual hairs seem to all be one colour so that throws out the blue agouti, right?

Also, I'm really excited to see what develops in the latest litter that just dropped. Koyla is the daughter of this black berkshire mom, and her litter is fathered by the same dad (yes, her own father). So far, they mostly look like more black berks, but there are 3 light coloured ones. This is her first litter, so I don't know what she carries. But correct me if I'm wrong here: If Dad is C/ch, and Mom is C/c, Koyla could be C/ch or C/c, since she's black, but NOT C/C because she made light babies. And now that I mated her back with dad, these light babies are going to be EITHER ch/c (Himi) or ch/ch (Siamese)? Assuming there's not some other random gene in there to mix it up...:)

The dad looks like a grey agouti to me. like verigated.

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Originally Posted by Sita

I finally took some time to really examine that darker "blue", and I think you guys are right about the mink. The individual hairs seem to all be one colour so that throws out the blue agouti, right?

Also, I'm really excited to see what develops in the latest litter that just dropped. Koyla is the daughter of this black berkshire mom, and her litter is fathered by the same dad (yes, her own father). So far, they mostly look like more black berks, but there are 3 light coloured ones. This is her first litter, so I don't know what she carries. But correct me if I'm wrong here: If Dad is C/ch, and Mom is C/c, Koyla could be C/ch or C/c, since she's black, but NOT C/C because she made light babies. And now that I mated her back with dad, these light babies are going to be EITHER ch/c (Himi) or ch/ch (Siamese)? Assuming there's not some other random gene in there to mix it up...:)

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Depends on what the light colored babies are. If there's beige some where in the family (even several generations back), those light-colored babies could be beige instead of Siamese or Himalayan. Before their eyes open you can actually see what color the eyes will be, because the eyelids are slightly transparent. Himi/Siamese will be pink-eyed, while beige will have red/ruby eyes. It is easy to tell pink or red/ruby eyes from black eyes, but it takes a little more practice to tell pink from red/ruby. It's been so long since I've done it I couldn't accurately describe to you what to look for now. :(

Once their fur starts coming in (or is it already?), if they are all whitish/creamish, then they are probably Himalayan or Siamese. If they are instead beige/cream (sometimes beige and a good dark Siamese will resemble each other as babies, except Siamese will have darker shading toward their rump and tail, and REALLY good Siamese will already have light points when they first start getting fur) then you will know both Koyla and her father/sire of this litter carry beige (a recessive separate from the albino/Siamese complex). If you have markings, that's going to complicate things though, since those markings will cover up some of the traits you'll want to look for in Himi/Siamese.

If you follow the rule of simplicity (the simplest answer is the best and most likely), then you probably have Himi or Siamese in the litter. I personally gave up that rule a LONG time ago when my rats started throwing some pretty funky combinations. ;)
I had one rat, a black, who ended up proving she carried nearly every recessive gene possible.... Talk about a head ache! lol

The little bubs are a week old, so fur is coming in, but it's not a full coat yet. Here's a couple pics, one with flash and one without. The best I can tell right now is maybe their rumps are a little darker, but since their fur is still thin, it's definitely not certain. We'll see how it goes. :) I put them next to a black and white sibling for comparison.

No idea on the lineage of beige on these guys. I'm pretty sure on mom's side there isn't much chance of beige, as she came from a friend of mine who breeds rats and used to be my supplier, and I've never gotten a beige from him. Bhutta on the other hand came from Craigslist, so who knows on him.

The other really cool thing about this litter is that I held back Koyla to breed because she is almost full black, with only a few white toes and no white on the belly, and most of the non-hooded pups are nearly all black. I was happy to see the patterning carry though.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...s/DSC03034.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...s/DSC03033.jpg

I would say those look like colorpoint instead of beige. :)

I can't tell for sure just yet because their fur is so thin, but I'm leaning in the direction of Siamese. It really does look like they have shading going down their rumps to their tails.

They might be missing the points on their feet, because of white markings, but if the black and white sibling is the extent of markings you have, they should at least have the points on their tail, ears, and nose.