Are ALL Leopards het pied?

Wait. So is the super leopard also a visual pied? Or not? Do you have a picture?

i agree, pics of super leopard would be awesome!


super leopard bred to pied will then produce 100% leopard pieds.

Whats also really awesome is that leopard will be a really great vector to get different genes into piebald, especially recessive ones!

if you want to make albino pied, for example, you have to deal with normal-looking double hets and hit a 1/16 chance with these, or with albinos that are 50% possible het pieds, and pieds that are 50% possible het albino, basically its a pain in the ass.

but with leopard, if you look at leopard het albino or albino leopard, you can tell the snake has the pied-thing going on. You can track it. Less proving out of possible hets, better odds. and once you have your albino leopard pied, you can breed to pied and can easily go for regular albino pied without leopard. But why even bother and not just stop & be happy once you hit your albino leopard pied?

this gene will long-term be more valuable than the pied gene, no doubt about it. That is, if what is being said about the super leopard by Luke Martin is true. I couldnt find pics with google, but didnt search that intensively.

A super leopard pied would look exactly the same as a leopard pied, it would just have two genes from the leopard line of pied. Think about it like this, if you put a leopard with a regular pied you get a leopard pied that carries the leopard line of pied as well as the regular line of pied and so you will get non leopards when you breed. But if you put leopard to leopard they will only have the leopard line and therefore only pass that line. The super leopard only throws leopards which are it's visual hets similar to how a super pastel only throws pastels which are it's visual hets.

This could very well mean that pied wouldn't be a true recessive and could instead be seen as a condominant trait.

My research into the gene is just starting with the leopard girl I'm getting, but if anyone knows how to contact Graziani or Davis I'd love for them to weigh in with what that know. I also saw Justin Kolbykas name popping up in a few of the threads maybe he can help with this issue

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Originally Posted by loonunit

Wait. So is the super leopard also a visual pied? Or not? Do you have a picture?

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A super leopard would be visual pied as leopard is het pied it would mean that if it had two leopard genes it would have two pied genes thus being visual

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Originally Posted by Anthony Renna

This could very well mean that pied wouldn't be a true recessive and could instead be seen as a condominant trait.

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no, the regular pied-line would still be recessive because the heterozygous pied is not visible. But Leopard (if all we assume about the super form is true) is codominant. And leopard and pied are on the same chromosome / locus. So the genes are part of the same gene complex, a super leopard pied is impossible, a homozygous pied with an additional leopard is impossible, you can only have super leopard, or leopard het pied (1 of each gene), or pied (2x pied gene), and all 3 forms are visible pieds.

so we have 1 recessive gene where the homozygous form is the pied, and 1 codominant gene where the homozygous form is also a pied, but in this case also a super leopard.

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Originally Posted by Kurtilein

no, the regular pied-line would still be recessive because the heterozygous pied is not visible. But Leopard (if all we assume about the super form is true) is codominant. And leopard and pied are on the same chromosome / locus. So the genes are part of the same gene complex, a super leopard pied is impossible, a homozygous pied with an additional leopard is impossible, you can only have super leopard, or leopard het pied (1 of each gene), or pied (2x pied gene), and all 3 forms are visible pieds.

so we have 1 recessive gene where the homozygous form is the pied, and 1 codominant gene where the homozygous form is also a pied, but in this case also a super leopard.

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A leopard het pied looks like a leopard not a pied. A leopard pied can be leopard x pied and a super leopard would be leopard x leopard and be a visual pied. Not all three form are visible as all leopards are het pied and not all of them are visual pieds

a BP that has the leopard-gene ONCE (NOT super form, only 1 copy), and also has the pied gene ONCE (het pied), looks like a pied.

a leopard is a 1-gene snake, a leopard het pied is a 2-gene snake most frequently called a leopard pied. Thats what the whole thread is about :) (and personally, i would call a pied also a 2-gene snake, and a het pied a 1-gene snake. But different people appear to count differently.)

people also call the toffino a toffee albino while most precisely it is a het toffee het albino.

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Originally Posted by Kurtilein

a BP that has the leopard-gene ONCE (NOT super form, only 1 copy), and also has the pied gene ONCE (het pied), looks like a pied.

a leopard is a 1-gene snake, a leopard het pied is a 2-gene snake most frequently called a leopard pied. Thats what the whole thread is about :) (and personally, i would call a pied also a 2-gene snake, and a het pied a 1-gene snake. But different people appear to count differently.)

people also call the toffino a toffee albino while most precisely it is a het toffee het albino.

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ALL Leopards have been proven het pied to this point so when you see regular leopard it is het pied. A leopard with a second pied gene is your leopard pied. And a leopard with a second leopard gene is what I'm considering a super leopard.
Leopard pied has two pied genes and is not het pied but an actual pied
A leopard has one and can be called leopard het pied

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Originally Posted by Kurtilein

a BP that has the leopard-gene ONCE (NOT super form, only 1 copy), and also has the pied gene ONCE (het pied), looks like a pied.

a leopard is a 1-gene snake, a leopard het pied is a 2-gene snake most frequently called a leopard pied. Thats what the whole thread is about :) (and personally, i would call a pied also a 2-gene snake, and a het pied a 1-gene snake. But different people appear to count differently.)

people also call the toffino a toffee albino while most precisely it is a het toffee het albino.

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So by your logic a Mojave lesser BEL would be a het Super Mojave het super lesser? I don't really get what your sayin. It seems like you are over complicating it. A leopard is a visual het pied. That's the simplest form. Or you can say its a new line of pied.

But I see what your saying about the leopard x "plane Jane" het pied. That pairing would give you:
25% het pieds
25% normals
25% leopards
25% leopard pieds

As far as I know you can't have a leopard that isn't het pied. So its either some BS like the granite and HGW being "stuck together" or leopard is a visual het pied. IMHO

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Originally Posted by Kurtilein

it could be that its truly dominant, so that the super leopard doesnt exist because its lethal, like it is with spider or pinstripe.

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Being Dominant does not mean it's "super" form is lethal. Dominant would mean that both the het and homo form look exactly the same.

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Originally Posted by Anthony Renna

This could very well mean that pied wouldn't be a true recessive and could instead be seen as a condominant trait.

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Really if you look at it, what we call codom works exactly the way recesives work, not codomanance. Technicaly, and I am sure many will beg to differ, but what we call codominant morphs, to me, are just visual recessive color/pattern genetics.