BP moving from Hot to Cool side A LOT! What does this mean??

It only takes 108 degrees to to give a BP brain damage. The zoomed UTH's can get the floor of a glass tank that hot in a few hours.

When a UTH is unregulated and does't have any airflow over it they will keep on getting hotter and hotter. I've measured the floor of a 10 gallon glass tank with an appropriately sized zoomed UTH at 147 degrees F. It took less than a week to get that hot.

I personally don't use them but 99% of new owners who get a UTH do and chances are they aren't using a thermostat. That is why I did my "worst case" test to see what happens.

I use AP cages with flexwatt. I can't use anything like ultratherms because they don't get hot enough to heat through the 1/2" PVC floor. But for glass tanks/single tubs I would use and recommend something like an untratherm.

That would be internal body temp for HHS correct? It is unlikely to occur if the ambient if correct and surface is in the mid 90s, failure to digest is first. It is not like a bit of contact to 109º is going to cause brain damage, if it were RHPs would be very dangerous. The body temp of a mouse is what 99º normal adding adrenaline it could reach 106º during trauma that is not an issue.

If it is set up according to the instructions air flow MUST be accounted for. My UTH is 110º sitting on the couch. I am not advocating unregulated but unregulated a couple of degrees high is better than no heat and far too cool. Simply turning off the heat is not a good answer there are far too many factors and if it is set up as per the instructions there is no fire hazard past any typical electrical heater. I have seen first hand the result of no heat for two weeks brings.

I don't think just suggesting turning off part of a heat system with out having any idea of what the impact might be is good advise. You know this Aaron, my suggestion is try it and see what happens but after 4 months with no more issues that lots of thermoregulating I would suggest either raising the bulb and/or placing something like a tile over the UTH slightly dropping the temp rather than (if the UTH is as warm as has been suggested) turning off much of the heat.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Not all UTH are made the same there are hi density and low density units zoo meds are in between I personally an not a huge fan of them but that is me. UTH should not be unregulated. that said unplugging it is also perhaps not a good idea if it is required to hold the temps in a reasonable range and unplugging it drops them below an acceptable range then no do not remove the heat. If it stays ok then yes unplug it.

A while back a young girl from my area had a BP with an ultratherm unregulated (limited heat low density heater) and hot spot temps that were around the 83º range in a cool room. The advise from this forum was to unplug it. The temps dropped to 66º across the board and the snake developed serious RI and upon all the best help (vet and the agency I am on the board of) did not recover. SNAKES NEED HEAT removing heat and allowing temps to drop below 80º will end badly.

The zoo med if the instructions are followed carefully will not cause a fire why would they? This is the (stupid) way they are designed to be used. Unregulated is exactly that out of control. You have a great T-stat on the way make sure you temps are ok between now and then and everything will be fine.

Is the snake eating? How long have you had the enclosure this way 4 months? If the answers are yes and the surface temps are 94 and do not get much hotter then there is no great issue you have a minor problem and the solution is in transit. Removing heat sources and dropping temps from slightly high to potentially dangerously low is not good advise or ideas. The easy solution may be to place a tile on the area where the pad is (ceramic or stone) to drop the temp and insure the snake cannot contact the dead bottom where the temps could be higher.

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Thank you!!!

I have only had the normal female for about a month….she is 103 grams and as eaten readily every 7 days since… (3 feedings)

I just picked up the Spider female last week (86 grams) and she ate for the 1st time on Sat.

Bigger than anything else is the quality of the thermometer! I think the one i have is terrible. I have 2 thermometers: the zoo-med with the probe and the Flukers combo thermometer/hygrometer. The zoo-med probe is located on the UTH and reading 85.6 degrees. The Flukers is in the middle of the tank on the bottom and is reading 83.1 degrees.

Should I invest in a temp gun so I can be certain???

A temp gun is a better investment than a thermometer, but I have to remember to use a few times a day to make sure your temps are good...

Thermometers are a huge bug-a-boo. If there were a good one to recommend I would tell you there are only cheap and good. Good sadly are hugely expensive. You actually have a very good on on the way the herpstat is about the best for the money. the fact it is a thermostat is a bonus. The issue is most digital ones are 2º+/- of accurate some are 4ºF +/- the ones that are spec'd at closer (1º+/- or better) and are certified (traceable) are often more (much) that the cost of a herpstat (0.9ºF +/-) I usually suggest buying the cheap ones and a number and averaging them it is scary how different they can be. I suggest 5 you can sort of get away with three but 10+ make the average work better. I usually get these

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Mini-Aquarium...ht_2371wt_1165

IR guns are great tools however they too are about the same accuracy. They are super useful but I would rely on an accurate thermometer and use the gun and a quick check tool. One does not really replace the other.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Thermometers are a huge bug-a-boo. If there were a good one to recommend I would tell you there are only cheap and good. Good sadly are hugely expensive. You actually have a very good on on the way the herpstat is about the best for the money. the fact it is a thermostat is a bonus. The issue is most digital ones are 2º+/- of accurate some are 4ºF +/- the ones that are spec'd at closer (1º+/- or better) and are certified (traceable) are often more (much) that the cost of a herpstat (0.9ºF +/-) I usually suggest buying the cheap ones and a number and averaging them it is scary how different they can be. I suggest 5 you can sort of get away with three but 10+ make the average work better. I usually get these

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Mini-Aquarium...ht_2371wt_1165

IR guns are great tools however they too are about the same accuracy. They are super useful but I would rely on an accurate thermometer and use the gun and a quick check tool. One does not really replace the other.

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A herpstat is an excellent tstat, top of the line. It isn't going to really help him know all his temps tho. Temp guns are generally much more accurate than the thermometers that are sold at reptile stores.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Thermometers are a huge bug-a-boo. If there were a good one to recommend I would tell you there are only cheap and good. Good sadly are hugely expensive. You actually have a very good on on the way the herpstat is about the best for the money. the fact it is a thermostat is a bonus. The issue is most digital ones are 2º+/- of accurate some are 4ºF +/- the ones that are spec'd at closer (1º+/- or better) and are certified (traceable) are often more (much) that the cost of a herpstat (0.9ºF +/-) I usually suggest buying the cheap ones and a number and averaging them it is scary how different they can be. I suggest 5 you can sort of get away with three but 10+ make the average work better. I usually get these

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Mini-Aquarium...ht_2371wt_1165

IR guns are great tools however they too are about the same accuracy. They are super useful but I would rely on an accurate thermometer and use the gun and a quick check tool. One does not really replace the other.

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The one you provide an ebay link for looks just like the Zoo-med I have.

Thanks for all of your feedback!! :)

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...mage_thumb.jpg

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

It only takes 108 degrees to to give a BP brain damage. The zoomed UTH's can get the floor of a glass tank that hot in a few hours.

When a UTH is unregulated and does't have any airflow over it they will keep on getting hotter and hotter. I've measured the floor of a 10 gallon glass tank with an appropriately sized zoomed UTH at 147 degrees F. It took less than a week to get that hot.

I personally don't use them but 99% of new owners who get a UTH do and chances are they aren't using a thermostat. That is why I did my "worst case" test to see what happens.

I use AP cages with flexwatt. I can't use anything like ultratherms because they don't get hot enough to heat through the 1/2" PVC floor. But for glass tanks/single tubs I would use and recommend something like an untratherm.

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With your AP Cages do you use flexwatt and Radiant Heat Panels??? If so, does your thermostat control both??

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Originally Posted by Ldag32

The one you provide an ebay link for looks just like the Zoo-med I have.

Thanks for all of your feedback!! :)

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...mage_thumb.jpg

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The zoo med is usually worse than the Exo terra tmeter. Mine were always very inaccurate

I have never really found a reasonably priced thermometer of any sort that was good, IR guns included, they are the same specs as the unit I posted. Most are +/-2ºF and some are worse. They are a useful tool as long as you keep the limitations in mind they do not really like shiny objects (smooth plastics for example) and do best pointed at something that reflects about as much light as a brown paper bag. They can give a good idea of gradients and spot temps but they cannot provide a precise measurement. They just do not work that way.

Sadly I calibrate instruments that require less than 0.5ºF in error and I have some very good thermometers and thermal couplers. The general thermometers used in the hobby are poor at best. This is why I suggest a number to be able to separate out the worst ones. I typically see a range of 2-3ºF from each other in a sampling group of 20 units the unit I linked earlier usually in 2ºF of correct (on the specs) the average is close to correct often being only 0.7ºF off.