Really, is the market getting that bad?

The market value of a morph should also vary depending on reliability. Buying off some nobody on KS Classifieds SHOULD be cheaper than buying off an established breeder, because with the breeder you are (presumably) paying for quality and reliability, and the established breeder (hopefully) will provide some amount of guarantee for the ancestry, quality, and health of the snake in question, things which all may be lacking in the "Joe Blow on KS" transaction.

There's also to some degree an issue of accessibility. Only established ball python hobbyists are likely to frequent online classifieds, whereas established breeders with mass-market websites are probably also frequented by intermediate and beginning hobbyists, and thus can charge more simply by virtue of being more accessible. It's the same reason Petsmart can charge $80 for a normal - sure, an identical or better quality normal could be had at a reptile show for $25 dollars, but your average Petsmart customer does not know that, and even if they did probably couldn't be bothered to seek out their local show and wait however many months until it occurs. You pay for convenience and accessibility.

Bottom line, basing market value on the cheapest price you can find is not a good idea. Market value varies a lot not only depending on what product but what market, and the "pet store" market is distinct from the "breeder" market is distinct from the "dude on KS" market.

If only everyone went by this thought process. They don't. As soon as prices get slashed in half, everyone drops their prices. Just look back over the past year. Most morphs are dropping prices by half or more each year. Lavs went from 3-4.5k down to 1.2-2k this year and they are recessive, go figure. Pewters are now selling for about 300. The problem is too many are being MASS produced along with a weak economy and too many people out for a quick buck. They don't care that other people are trying to support their hobby.

Does anybody feel that the auctions sites/pages contribute to a lowering of the market value? Seems to me most people go there to dump an animal so others go to those sites looking for a deal. Maybe it's just me.

I have always felt that way about the auctions. It seemed at first it was mainstream stuff that can be tough to sell on auctions. Now people are willing to put up more mid level and even high end stuff and I think it drops the value on it.
The way things seem now is that too many people breed to breed and dont care about the quality of animal they produce. You can see that by some of the stuff coming up for sale these days. Pastels that start out brown...never mind brown out as they age and just poor examples of morphs in general. I do this as a hobby but still consider it a business. I enjoy doing it. However I take pride in the animals I produce and also take pride in trying to provide the best customer service I possibly can. I always keep in contact with customers and am available after the sale. You have to wonder if these people that are just pumping out snakes and selling them for rock bottom prices care about those same things. You get what you pay for and unfortunately alot of people dont realize that until they have a problem on their hands. Sometimes "Joe Blow on KS" will provide you with the best animals and service you could ask for simply because they are a smaller breeder with the customer in mind.

I can't tell you how happy I am to have seen this thread. (I know I haven't been posting on here much lately, real life has sort of gotten a hold of me and swung me around like a top). With that being said, I have been advertising my one and only clutch for the past few months. Let me give you a little background on this particular clutch. The Dad (Vanilla) came from Gulf Coast Reptiles who we all know is "The Vanilla Producer"...LOL. At any rate, after I had him for a while and realized just how special he was, I started looking for a female worthy of him. This was four years ago when Vanillas were a lot harder to come by. It took me quite a long time to find just the right female and I did. She came from a normal CH mother and a Super Vanilla Dad. I loved her reduced pattern and coloring. I grew these two slowly and they paired up last season and I was happy to find four eggs.
Fast forward to April and the night they started pipping. I literally looked like :O when I saw the first one's head...A SUPER! Wow, the odds were with me. The next one looked like a Vanilla but I wasn't too sure at that point. They sat in their little eggs peeking at me until the next day and I couldn't wait to see what the rest of them looked like. The next morning I leaped out of bed like a 6 year old on Christmas morning and hurried to the incubator. There was another little head peeking out at me and it was obviously a normal, which made #2 a Vanilla for sure. #4 was being sullen and did not want to come out. For two days they remained like this and it was driving me crazy!!!
The next day they were all out of their eggs and crawling around the tub. My husband found me dumbstruck and speechless staring into the tub about 20 minutes after I went to check on them. All four had extremely aberrant patterns and two were Supers!
I contacted the man that I had bought the female from and wanted to see if he still had the Mother of my girl and would he be interested in selling her. Unfortunately he had already sold her but from the one picture I saw of her, it was clear to me that the aberrancies came from her.
I plan on repeating this breeding to assure the genetics but this long story comes down to this one point...

I originally had a price that I was going to put on them and then someone advertised a male on KS waaaay below that price so I just sat back and waited a bit. Sure enough, a month or so later, GCR had some Supers advertised for 1250 shipped. I thought that was a fair price and advertised mine. Now GCR has dropped their price to 1000 and I'm not willing to go that low. Bear in mind, I MAY (may being the operative word here) have something special and I MAY not. I still think that whether or not this is genetic, they are both FINE looking Supers and I'm not dropping my price.

Of course I may still have them this time next year too.........Just my two cents.

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Originally Posted by Ridinandreptiles

I've noticed this too, so would you guys say it is a bad time to invest in snakes in general?

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Low prices is the best time to invest. you have 2 - 3 years to get females up to size and if that seems like a time frame you expect it might be the right time. That said, (This is purely my opinion) the market is saturated with morphs and breeders and you may see a bottoming out from over production or demand shifting away from what you choose to breed. I have heard enough complaints about the Tinley show having ball pythons on almost every table.

Ball Pythons are a very BAD investment. IMO. If you come into the hobby to make what you want for yourself, then by all means do it. If you are planning to enter the hobby to make cash..... run, run with the wind in the opposite direction. Seriously, unless you are investing hundreds of thousands of dollars, you are not going to make a significant return on your investment. Every year or even every 6 months prices get dropped. Every year most morphs are cut in half and some even more. There are too many breeders in the market and it's getting saturated.

Ball Pythons really are the next corn snake.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Ball Pythons are a very BAD investment. IMO. If you come into the hobby to make what you want for yourself, then by all means do it. If you are planning to enter the hobby to make cash..... run, run with the wind in the opposite direction. Seriously, unless you are investing hundreds of thousands of dollars, you are not going to make a significant return on your investment. Every year or even every 6 months prices get dropped. Every year most morphs are cut in half and some even more. There are too many breeders in the market and it's getting saturated.

Ball Pythons really are the next corn snake.

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I agree. You can't come into this hobby thinking that you'll make a profit. Sure, there are breeders that do it full time for a living, but for most of us who have day jobs, it's a money losing hobby. That's what hobbies are though. We spend money on it for our enjoyment, not necessarily for a profit. Breeding and selling just helps offset the cost of maintaining the hobby. Morph prices drop so quickly too. Look at bumblebees and lemon blasts. They're beautiful 2-gene combos, but by next year you'll see males going for $200 and females for $300, if not lower.

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Originally Posted by collrak

I agree. You can't come into this hobby thinking that you'll make a profit. Sure, there are breeders that do it full time for a living, but for most of us who have day jobs, it's a money losing hobby. That's what hobbies are though. We spend money on it for our enjoyment, not necessarily for a profit. Breeding and selling just helps offset the cost of maintaining the hobby. Morph prices drop so quickly too. Look at bumblebees and lemon blasts. They're beautiful 2-gene combos, but by next year you'll see males going for $200 and females for $300, if not lower.

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Breaking een in 2-5 years is realistic.... But hog nose for the win!!(;

The thig is is even though prices are dropping any they will be the next corn snake a person can still make their money back if they are passionate about te hobby. Hell, if pewters drop to 50 and you paid 400 in 2-3 years you should have 100% of your money. So I don't think we should be shy about spending for a hobby. I think people making money days are over unless you have millions of lil snakies