Espresso Project... finally proving out?

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

It has the characteristic 'cinnie snout'.

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The only difference I see is that it's a bit thinner? The sire to that clutch (the Mojave) has a long skinny snout as well.

Compared to normal from another clutch:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...oseCompare.jpg

Closeup:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...pressoNose.jpg

Compared to one of it's sibling Pastaves:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...aveCompare.jpg

I don't know about the pastave, but yes, the cinnie has a thin snout, and sometimes a shorter one, too. If you look at a lot of photos of cinnies and black pastels, you'll see what I'm talking about. The vast majority have it, so much so that I use it to identify a poor quality cinnie.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Matty

I guess I should begin with some back-story on this project that we purchased from another breeder who unfortunately had to give up the hobby for personal reasons. The previous breeder bought a dark female and in 2006 she produced a clutch with a pastel male. An odd looking female came out of the egg, which he dubbed the mother an "Espresso".
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...voPostShed.jpg


Looks like we got more questions to figure out than answers lol.

Thanks for looking!

Matt @ The Brass Gecko

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You can call that a Pastavo, Essprojavel, or a Djiboutian three legged watermelon...

I call it a Freakin' Stunner! That's absolutely gorgeous.

I have seen the espresso original and it is def odd I *think* RGR got it as a CH not sure there. I have been watching the espresso project for ages, I do not believe it is related to any pewter line currently but wether it is a new variation on pewters or something else remains to be seen. That is a great looking little one to be sure I hope that I can see in the flesh soon?? :D:D Is the Mojo one of RGRs too or from else where? He breed some of the mojos with the sub-saharan female, I again I wonder if there is not a touch of the charcoal project crossing over there as well? Perhaps if the mojo is RGRs there maybe a little extra from the mojos side as well. I believe you have the records and would know better than I. Something to dig up maybe?

Alex

Someone is selling a "espresso" ball on kingsnake

http://img.tapatalk.com/61875360-eed8-d75d.jpg

Looks like a completely different snake? States its a wc unproven male. On a side note they are asking $4500 for an unproven male?? Crazy.


Please excuse any errors sent from my crap phone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rat160

Someone is selling a "espresso" ball on kingsnake

http://img.tapatalk.com/61875360-eed8-d75d.jpg

Looks like a completely different snake? States its a wc unproven male. On a side note they are asking $4500 for an unproven male?? Crazy.


Please excuse any errors sent from my crap phone.

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That isn't us that's for sure. It looks nothing like our line lol

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

I have seen the espresso original and it is def odd I *think* RGR got it as a CH not sure there. I have been watching the espresso project for ages, I do not believe it is related to any pewter line currently but wether it is a new variation on pewters or something else remains to be seen. That is a great looking little one to be sure I hope that I can see in the flesh soon?? :D:D Is the Mojo one of RGRs too or from else where? He breed some of the mojos with the sub-saharan female, I again I wonder if there is not a touch of the charcoal project crossing over there as well? Perhaps if the mojo is RGRs there maybe a little extra from the mojos side as well. I believe you have the records and would know better than I. Something to dig up maybe?

Alex

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Hey Alex!

The Mojo was from another breeder that they bought in Montreal I do believe. Of course you'll get to see her soon, the expo at the latest. We plan on having her in our display.

So much for that thought... It is very interesting but elusive gene for sure. Did you guys get to see B when he was down?

Your Espressos are Cinnamons. Not sure how, when, or why it happened, but that's what they are.

Saying that the first Pewters were produced after the breeder male was produced is moot. If they didn't know it was a Pewter, nor what a Cinnamon was at the time, anyone would have just called it a weird Pastel, especially cause he's not your "traditional" looking Pewter. Cinnamons have been around for forever, there were just a few people who picked them out as something different and proved it out. Once Greg proved it, there were suddenly many adult Cinnamons in people collections. Same thing happened with Yellowbellies. Believe me, I was there ;) lol

On that note, the Pewter Mojave is awesome!

I don't understand how that sire can possible be a pewter unless they have some way to produce pastel babies as I own one of his babies and it is no doubt a pastel.

Pewters produce Pastels, Cinnamons, and Pewters.